Citizen Corps and TIPS - do they go far enough ?

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Votes: 25

Citizen Corps and TIPS - do they go far enough ?

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Jul 29, 2002

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I am worried about the TIPS program. Specifically, what about keeping tabs on subversive Americans when they travel abroad ?

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I am a frequent traveller to the continent of Europe, most often London, but occasionally Amsterdam, Berlin, Geneva and Zurich feature on my itinerary.

I have observed on many occasions, Americans entering the Dutch "coffee shops" in order to get stoned on illegal drugs, drugs with which the USA is currently at war!

Now obviously, as an American, I can report these individuals via the TIPS system. But wouldn't it be great if the TIPS system were extended to Europeans and other races too ? Then we could be sure that American subversives were being watched wherever they go.

After all, its no good having an excellent monitoring and surveillance system, if the subversive elements can simply go to another country to escape the legitimate monitoring of their peers.

	A terrible state of affairs. (3.00 / 1) (#1)
	by because it isnt on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 02:57:03 PM PST

	I think this "Big Brother" system in America is frankly appauling. The fact the government has set up a spy network to surveil its own citizens shows the extreme contempt it holds for its voters. There should be no spy network. Given recent advances in Science, there should be no need. Afte r a simple and routine immunization programme, incompliant citizens would simply report themselves, saving the government millions. Even better, with the aid of an education program in the schools and at peak TV times, they would learn not to be incompliant in the first place. There is no need for this distrustful and hateful "spy" network, which does no good and brings unfavourable comparisons between the Bush administration and the Ingsoc party in George Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four". adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Well, quite. (none / 0) (#2)
	by dmg on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 03:38:00 PM PST

	I found myself agreeing with you, but then I noticed your misspelling of the word "appaling", and at that point, the credibility of your arguments disappeared in a puff of poor grammar. Please try harder to spell properly next time, remember, this is the adequacy not some sophomoric bullshitters site. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Indeed. (none / 0) (#4)
	by because it isnt on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 04:47:39 PM PST

	I am relieved that you didn't spot another couple of whoppers - "afte r" (sic) and "immunization" (sic). adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	I spotted them (5.00 / 1) (#5)
	by dmg on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 04:50:57 PM PST

	I was trying to spare your blushes, however, since the majority of adequacy readers have a good education, I fear my attempts to cover for your ignorance were probably wasted. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Very interesting, Mr DMG. (none / 0) (#8)
	by because it isnt on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 06:12:46 PM PST

	I notice you said "I spotted them", which would suggest that you thought "immunization" was somehow mis-spelt. Obviously, this is the anti-USA pro-terror unpatriotic communist Islamic rhetoric which you have picked up during your regular visits to London. I have taken the liberty of reporting you directly to the CIA, and they are surveiling you at this very moment, waiting for you to make your scheduled 06:38 departure at Heathrow. Pleasant dreams, comrade. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Au Contraire, Mr Isnt (5.00 / 1) (#15)
	by dmg on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 07:29:42 AM PST

	A quick look in Webster's confirms the correct spelling, with an 's' not a 'z'. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	It can't be happening! (4.50 / 2) (#25)
	by because it isnt on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 12:56:26 PM PST

	Are you really saying what I think you are? That "immunisation" is "correct", while "immunization" is "wrong"? My dear Lord, even Osama bin Laden couldn't top what you've done here today. Mr DMG, you are not so much "on" the slippery slope as you are "hurtling down" it. You preach against the American Way itself! Is it not the right of every American to take what the British have done for centuries and change it in some insignificant and meaningless way just to be different? Your attack on the chiefly American variant of the "-ise" suffix sickens me to the core. With lingual terrorists such as yourself on the loose, honest God-fearing American families must protect their children from "colour", from "braces", and most of all from "paedophiles". To top it all, you didn't even quote from Webster's -- you referenced an entry in Princeton University's WordsNet. As you know, Princeton is the home of that liberalist terrormonger, Professor Edward Felten. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	you should probably keep quiet dmg (none / 0) (#12)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 05:16:37 AM PST

	I was trying to spare your blushes, however, since the majority of adequacy readers have a good education, I fear my attempts to cover for your ignorance were probably wasted. I first visited this site because I followed a link pointing to this little story. I laughed while reading this comedic little bit too. I've read your other works too. I have come to the conclusion that spelling and grammatical errors are the least of your worries.

	Well Right... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 05:29:34 PM PST

	I found myself agreeing with you, but then I noticed your misspelling of the word "appalling", and at that point, the credibility of your arguments disappeared in a puff of poor grammar.

	Moron (none / 0) (#14)
	by dmg on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 07:26:19 AM PST

	Its called "irony" but I guess it went right over your head. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	nope it's stupidity (3.00 / 2) (#26)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 02:14:41 PM PST

	A real example of irony would be a bunch of self-absorbed intellectuals continually talking down to what they determine to be the uneducated masses only to turn around and right nothing but mindless bullshit. I believe a bunch of them started a website. It's called Ade-something.org There's nothing ironic about having nothing to contradict a statement and having to result to attacks on spelling and and grammar to discredit that statement. However, if you consider that you yourself continuously use pretty words, flowery language and spell check quite often to say absolutely nothing (well, at least nothing any person of average intelligence would take seriously), that would be ironic.

	Thank you PlebeTron3000. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
	by derek3000 on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 01:21:17 PM PST

	A real example of irony would be a bunch of self-absorbed intellectuals continually talking down to what they determine to be the uneducated masses only to turn around and right nothing but mindless bullshit. How can we take you seriously when you can't even discriminate between "right" and "write"? The Adequacy is a tightly-knit collective of some of the brightest minds in the world. There's nothing ironic about having nothing to contradict a statement and having to result to attacks on spelling and and grammar to discredit that statement. Apparently you don't fully understand The Concept of Irony. Put down that Alanis Morissette CD! ---------------- "Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

	I don't know about you... (none / 0) (#44)
	by because it isnt on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 05:36:20 PM PST

	[In response to AR who was told that dmg's mis-spelling was "intentional" and therefore "ironic"] How can we take you seriously when you can't even discriminate between "right" and "write"? ...but my irony-meter is way off the scale here. [link to Kierkgaarde bibliography titled "The Concept of Irony"] I'm bound to get a "1" from nathan for this, but what does that old Christian psued have to offer up ironically that Juvenal, Horace, Aristophanes, Petronius, Dryden, Swift or Pope haven't already? Or are you being secretly ironic with your recommendation? adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	I just didn't like... (none / 0) (#52)
	by derek3000 on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 05:10:29 AM PST

	how he was throwing the word around like so much confetti. And no, I wasn't being secretly ironic with my Kierkegourd recommendation. ---------------- "Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

	Perhaps you don't understand irony either ? (none / 0) (#53)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 05:31:51 AM PST

	<i>Apparently you don't fully understand The Concept of Irony. Put down that Alanis Morissette CD!</i><p> When Alanis talks about "Rain on your wedding day" being ironic, she is making an ironic statement, the irony is, she is talking about something being ironic, when it isn't. Its sort of meta-irony if you like.

	But she didn't intend it that way... (none / 0) (#55)
	by derek3000 on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 08:18:33 AM PST

	and that's what counts. ---------------- "Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

	How do you know (none / 0) (#57)
	by dmg on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 09:49:06 AM PST

	What goes on in the mind of Ms Morissette ? Or is it on the record somewhere that she has no idea what irony means ? time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	The... (5.00 / 1) (#58)
	by walwyn on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 12:43:31 PM PST

	conceit concerning irony is rather specific and does not extend to North Americans in general. Thus by right of being Canadian, Ms Morissette ought to be given the benefit of the doubt that she know what irony is.

	I'm getting nauseous. (none / 0) (#60)
	by derek3000 on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 01:47:22 PM PST

	You're giving this broad entirely too much credit. ---------------- "Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

	Why can't people leave people alone? (none / 0) (#7)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 06:04:06 PM PST

	I mean really if some fuck nut wants to fry his brain on what ever why can't he/her? I mean they could record it and it be funny to watch some stoner trying to make sense of lava lamp. Hell a new reality show called "how much before you die." a show where people take has many drugs they can and try to survive who every left standing with a heart rate is the winner! The winners reward will be of coruse living after getting the biggest high possiable.

	Cars, guns and heavy machinery (5.00 / 1) (#9)
	by Ernest Bludger on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 09:12:48 PM PST

	I mean really if some fuck nut wants to fry his brain on what ever why can't he/her? That would be fine if these abusers kept themselves and their habits confined to a personal private space, like watching Teletubbies at home. However there's a large body of evidence that suggests that abusers think that they can function 'normally' whilst their brains are frying. In short, drug users are out and about in public. That's the problem. I don't want these people driving cars or operating heavy machinery when they're on their junk. I don't want them brandishing firearms (if they're breaking the law by taking drugs, they're almost certainly 'packing heat'ers) in my vicinity, or in the vicinity of my family and friends (nor in the vicinity of YOUR family and friends). I don't want them thinking that simply because they like a "Rhohypnol" or a "Viagra" to accompany a drink, it's okay for them to drop a similar pill or some powder into my daughter's drink. These people are not benign, peace-loving, inner-spirit-god-searchers, nor are they edgy artists looking to explore their 'true' creativity; they are a danger and a menace. The worse thing: they don't realise how dangerous they are. Just look at the pathetic rambings of any stoner when anyone (correctly) suggests that "Marie Jane" is not a harmless natural herb. Smarten up, AR.

	Good point (none / 0) (#19)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 09:06:40 AM PST

	I wouldn't want my docter stooking up before my surgery. Well still maybe we can outlaw drugs in america but why when the fuck nut is in another country? Its a great idea instead of trained soldiers how about making a extreme drug hybrid, givin it to convicts then dropping them in a enemy country to tear the shit out of it after the high off their brains are to fry to function so we get rid of our enemies and our convicts. Some times I think you people are to uncreative.

	Here's a better solution. (none / 0) (#10)
	by gordonjcp on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 02:49:11 AM PST

	There are moves afoot to ban Americans from even entering Europe. There's quite a lot of people over here who aren't terrorists, and aren't afraid of terrorists like Americans are, who just don't want you in here. At the moment, you Americans are just bad luck to have around.

	You should ban us. (none / 0) (#29)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 10:07:42 PM PST

	We hate you deep down, because you have all that vacation time, and even though we all have the Rambo 'I skipped the birth of my first child for this project' mentality in the US, you all are still eating our lunch. Look at all the ex-US companies owned by European nations now, we may as well hand over the keys already. So much for the 80 hour week machoman bs.

	Americans should simply say "fuck your laws&q (none / 0) (#11)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 04:58:43 AM PST

	That's right. Whenever an American enters another country no matter how strict or loose the laws they should no follow them. If it's unacceptable in America but acceptable in say London they should do it. If it's acceptable in America but illegal in that country they should do it anyway. I'm tired of American simply believing that they do have to respect the laws and culture of other nations. I'm also sick of these people breaking laws in other countries then hiring American lawyers to argue American law in other countries. Rememeber that kid in Singapore? They hired an American lawyer who claimed they couldn't cane the kid because he was an American and that type of punishment is illegal in America. So fucking what? If you are in another country you shou respect the laws and culture no matter how strict or loose they may be. So what if while you're there you smoke weed? I have absolutely no problem with people who smoke weed in moderation (smoking a joint after work and who plan to stay at home). Now don't get me wrong I'm totally against people becoming "pot-heads". A single cigarette is much more higly addictive and will kill you faster than a joint. Besides what's the worst crime someone has ever committed when they're high? Eating their friends taco?

	You liberals need to wake up and smell the coffee (none / 0) (#13)
	by dmg on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 07:24:08 AM PST

	Besides what's the worst crime someone has ever committed when they're high? Eating their friends taco? Last year a young marijuana addict was hanged in Baltimore for criminal assault on a 10-year-old girl. In Chicago, two marijuana-smoking boys murdered a policeman. In Florida, police found a youth staggering about in a human slaughterhouse. With an axe he had killed his father, mother, two brothers, and a sister. he had no recollection of having committed a crime. Ordinarily a sane, rather quiet young man, he had become crazed from smoking marijuana. In at least two dozen comparatively recent cases of murder or degenerate sex attacks, marijuana proved to be a contributing cause. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Well... (none / 0) (#16)
	by The Mad Scientist on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 08:27:39 AM PST

	How many of such cases were caused by beer drinkers? Or by people occassionally driving cars?

	Dont try and change the subject. (none / 0) (#17)
	by dmg on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 08:43:50 AM PST

	We were talking about DRUGS not alcohol. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Some people say alcohol is a drug. (none / 0) (#18)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 09:05:36 AM PST

	Nonsense. It's not a drug, it's a drink. Chris Morris

	Oh? (none / 0) (#20)
	by The Mad Scientist on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 11:10:31 AM PST

	We were talking about DRUGS not alcohol. Oh? I thought we were altering about mind-altering substances in general.

	Didn't you read the article ? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
	by dmg on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 11:38:26 AM PST

	Here is the line in question: in order to get stoned on illegal drugs, drugs with which the USA is currently at war! Nowhere do I mention alcohol which I might add is legal almost everywhere (with the exception of some extremist Islamic countries, and Mormon states). Oh I get it! You think alcohol and drugs are the same thing!!!. You think that injecting yourself with contaminated heroin in a filthy lavatory somewhere is the same as going for a beer with friends at the local bar. How cosmopolitan of you. How liberal. How sophisticated. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Irrelevant details. (2.00 / 1) (#23)
	by The Mad Scientist on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 12:44:12 PM PST

	What's legal or illegal is determined by what a bunch of old rich men decided on. However, what is a mind-altering substance is determined by its neurochemical behavior. Guess what is more important in its end effect. You think alcohol and drugs are the same thing!!!. You think that injecting yourself with contaminated heroin in a filthy lavatory somewhere is the same as going for a beer with friends at the local bar. I think that guzzling beer in a local bar, snorting cocaine with fellow stockbrokers, and getting stoned in a token-ring circle where the token is a joint are principially equivalent. Besides, you never heard about anyone going blind after sipping improperly distilled methanol-contaminated homemade booze?

	But America is at war with alcohol! (3.00 / 1) (#24)
	by because it isnt on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 12:45:00 PM PST

	You just have to wind the clock back to Prohibition, America's original War On Drugs. You may have noticed that the US government eventually abandoned their ban on alcohol, for three main reasons: Citizens were imbibing it with impunity anyway, despite the fact it rendered them incapable and left them with permanent brain-damage. The Demon Drink took countless lives away and ruined millions more. The illegal trade in drugs was booming, fuelling a huge wave of organised crime. Vast amounts of money was handed over to ruthless gangsters acting as distributors of the dangerous and unregulated moonshine. Most importantly, there was all this money being spent and the Government wasn't getting a cut. That's the #1 route to putting your economy in the shitter. Doesn't this sound familiar? Hello? You know, one aspect of wisdom is the ability to learn from your past mistakes. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Not quite. (none / 0) (#31)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 11:28:22 PM PST

	Nice theory but Prohibition was engineered to raise funds for one of the two shadow governments that run the USA. The Prohibition slush fund purchased the blushing, innocent Camelot that led to the destruction of the United States as a benevolent empire. Sadly, the Nazi, bootlegger, Boston gangster, slumlord and financier-thief Joseph Kennedy's Machiavellian designs failed to account for the son's active libido and the Sopranos family values. When "The John" (as he was affectionately known by the Secret Service) confided to Prime Minister Macmillan that he got a headache if he went too long without a woman, he wasn't kidding. The moral of the story is, make sure you teach your son not to fuck the moll. Hold on a sec, there's someone at the door. I'll be right back ...

	whoa now (3.00 / 2) (#28)
	by detikon on Tue Jul 30th, 2002 at 03:16:56 PM PST

	You think alcohol and drugs are the same thing!!!. You think that injecting yourself with contaminated heroin in a filthy lavatory somewhere is the same as going for a beer with friends at the local bar. That's right let us compare an extremely harsh illegal (in the US) drug like heroin to a pussy drink like beer. Did someone forget to mention that alcohol is not limited to beer? I think a better comparison would have been the guys sitting around doing tequila shots. Also you forget factors like height, weight, age, sex, tolerance, dosage etc. Go back and research those stories again. I notice you failed to report them correctly. If you did you'd find that there was no proof of marijuana use and that, that was used solely as a criminal defense (according to those reports). You'll also find out something else. You wrote: Last year a young marijuana addict was hanged in Baltimore for criminal assault on a 10-year-old girl. Funny, seems very similar to an excerpt that appeared in the book Marihuana: Assassin of Youth written by Harry J. Anslinger in 1937. A condensed version later appeared in Reader's Digest in 1938. It was later rehashed (pun intended) in an issue of Reefer Madness. This article is a good example of how "fear tactics" were used to demonize cannabis in the thirties. The original source is essentially a laundry list of dubious "case histories" of marijuana-induced sexual assaults and murder sprees. We've picked out a few of the more entertaining passages: Find them here. Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

	How about Japan? (none / 0) (#32)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 12:18:23 AM PST

	Are you aware that child sex is legal in Japan? Should Americans therefore be excused for having sex with children, simply because foreign laws permit it? Of course not. If American customs agents were able to determine which citizens had taken advantage of lax foreign sex laws, you can be sure that those who had would be refused entry to America and most likely lose their citizenships. If you behave like a criminal overseas, you should be treated like one when you get home. It's as simple as that. There's a simple fact that everyone knew two centuries ago, that is all but forgotten today, and that is that the American way is better. We have a better government and a better legal system, and a freer populace than any other nation in the world. Why should Americans be allowed to abuse the inferior laws and customs of foreigners? You might as well have said that it's OK to steal as long as nobody sees you.

	flawed (none / 0) (#33)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 01:24:06 AM PST

	So you're supposed to act like an American when in other countries. So if you do something that's legal in America but illegal in the country you're visiting it's OK? Nope sorry. Americans are told that they are representatives of America but they MUST respect the laws and cutoms of the country they are in. In other words if it's legal in the US but illegal their then you can't do it. If it's illegal in America but legal in that country (and is part of the culture you are more than welcome to do it. The only time you must obey American law in a foreign land is when you are visiting the American Embassy as it's considered American soil.

	That's very pedophile friendly of you (none / 0) (#34)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 02:44:39 AM PST

	Unfortunately, you haven't explained how child abuse becomes morally acceptable when you cross a national border. So your argument isn't particularly convincing. No doubt plenty of child molesters are nodding their heads in agreement with you, though. I don't mind saying, you're welcome to them, wherever you are. Just don't send them back here. Americans should comport themselves as Americans. I'd love to see a foreign court find one of my countrymen guilty for that.

	Actually, Japan is child friendly, (none / 0) (#36)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 05:56:44 AM PST

	especially when enterprising young kids extort the paedophillic Japanese men with their 'dirty underwear' and 'rorikon' industries. For example, see the news article Schoolgirls in online sleaze shocker. Schoolgirls in Japan are using the internet to run lucrative prostitution and sleaze sites. According to police information, as many as 10 per cent of Japanese schoolgirls use web-based dating services, while a significant number of these prostitute themselves this way. Other, more seedy, reports suggest that girls are selling soiled underwear over the web. As you can see, the kids are ahead of the game in Japan, and are no doubt earning a far higher reward for cashing in their immortal soul, than their American "college tryout" counterparts. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	lol (none / 0) (#38)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 06:27:18 AM PST

	all the ninja's, videogames, and flashing lights get to them?

	Confusion (none / 0) (#41)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 03:53:40 PM PST

	Why would he explain how child abuse becomes morally acceptable? Who said it was acceptable? If child abuse is not prohibited by the law, that doesn't mean that you must abuse children. There is no law saying: thou shalt abuse children here. If marijuana is legal in the Netherlands, and you don't want to smoke, do you think the police will arrest you? And you'll be judged for not smoking? You know, even some Dutch people don't smoke.

	This is all a bit beyond you, isn't it? (none / 0) (#42)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 04:30:17 PM PST

	Try reading the entire thread, that might help.

	Not at all! (none / 0) (#45)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 06:48:32 PM PST

	My point is that you are confusing legal and moral. My point is that there is no law forcing you to do something immoral. My point is that when abroad, you are subject to the laws of the country where you are. My point is that your congress may freely decides that all American citizens, even abroad, are subject to American Law (other countries decided so, for some crimes: France and Germany punish children abuse abroad, but it depends on the collaboration of the foreign country: it must be a crime for them too). And, por favor, try to back your statements with some facts: America is the freer country in the world. America has the best judicial system. America has the best government. The American way is better. Don't just keep going repeating those simple affirmations. Try to convince us, free citizens of Canada, Europe, Japan, and some other democracies.

	Proof (none / 0) (#46)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 31st, 2002 at 09:29:19 PM PST

	All you need to do to prove how free your slave nations are is to go to your local gun store and buy...exactly nothing. Most of those nations don't even have gun shops. As for proving that the American way is better, the evidence is all around you. We're top of the pig pile, no matter how you look at it. Militarily, economically and culturally, there is no nation on Earth that can stand against us today. It's all part of being the last superpower, and the only free market democracy.

	Newsflash: American thinks America is best country (none / 0) (#48)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 02:59:27 AM PST

	A typical American measures freedom in "how many guns can I own?". Questions like "am I free to copy this CD loaned to me like they can in Canada?" or "can I freely practise my Islamic beliefs without some paranoid nationalist gun-nut blowing up my mosque and capping me in the head?" are neatly avoided. Besides, you are only enjoying what you perceive as 'dominance' because other countries are freer than you, and allowing you to 'win'. If you get too uppity, we'll blow up another of your landmarks. This time, we'll use SUVs, so you'll all be scared to get in your SUVs and thus halve oil consumption and greenhouse gas emission. By the way, you're kidding yourself if you think a few Golden Arches and cartoon mice equals cultural dominance. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	You're so right. (none / 0) (#62)
	by RobotSlave on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 03:15:44 PM PST

	Without the yellow plastic signage and the films on which all of Japanese cartooning and animation are based, American culture, which includes but is not limited to jazz, blue jeans, the elevator and skyscrapers, railroads, the blues, popular narrative cinema, ragtime, the quaker aesthetic, the subway, the arts and crafts movement, nylon and polyester, mass production, human flight and affordable air travel, radio, the electric light bulb, pragmatism, television, corn, nuclear power and weaponry, beat, pizza, flappers, the ice cream cone, hip-hop, super-heroes, baseball, comic strips, cup-holders, home computers, the goddamned internet, and rock and roll, amounts to nothing, in modern-day global culture. © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	Gagh. (none / 0) (#70)
	by because it isnt on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 01:41:28 AM PST

	You write awkwardly. Try holding the pen in your other hand. Off the top of my head, pizza is Italian, railways are English, human flight is French, light bulbs are a spin-off of the English electric lamp, the television is Scottish, the radio is Italian and the underground railway is obviously English. I haven't looked into the others, but this is probably one of your "every fact is wrong" comments to force me into a point-by-point rebuttal. I'm not falling for that. Besides, as I'm sure you know culture is distinct from mere inventions. If I go to the park today, will I find anyone playing baseball? No. They will be playing football (not "American" football, but normal football), rugby or cricket. Some of them might even be playing the ancient Scottish game of golf. The kids are all listening to British crap on the radio instead of American crap. The only successful cultural invaders have been fast-food outlets and Hollywood movies. No wonder people think Americans are fat and stupid. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	British music (none / 0) (#71)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 02:38:18 AM PST

	It's funny the way you selectively ignore things that undermine your point. That "British crap" has its roots in distinctly American forms, which trace their lineage back to blues, a style which was invented in the American South. I'd call that a cultural influence, wouldn't you? Blues and its offspring have defined the world of music from the twentieth century onwards. I presume, since you haven't mentioned them, that Hollywood movies are unheard of where you are. Am I correct?

	You are wrong as usual AR. (none / 0) (#72)
	by walwyn on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 03:55:31 AM PST

	So called American Music such as the blues and jazz can be traced back to the musical forms of West Africa. But for an American I suppose we should give you credit for being close. The World ought to reckonize that bombing red cross stores, wedding parties, and Chinese embassies isn't due to incompetence but the result of a national geographical dyslexia.

	NIH syndrome gone horribly wrong. (none / 0) (#73)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 04:00:32 AM PST

	That "British crap" has its roots in distinctly American forms Er, no. It has its roots in "europop" synthesizer-led music which has its roots in Polka. Kudos to Chicago and Detroit for their contributions to techno (which are actually rooted in African tribal music), but that's what's playing in the clubs for over-18s, not what "the kids" are listening to. Ultimately, the entire chord-progression based composition style comes under "Western style", which was introduced by a lot of white Europeans, before they decided to invent the United States. Props where they're due, homie. I presume, since you haven't mentioned them, that Hollywood movies are unheard of where you are. Am I correct? No, you're not. I recommend purchasing a pair of Roman eye-glasses. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Elvis and me are gonna kick your ass (none / 0) (#74)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 04:59:53 AM PST

	Elvis was from Tennessee, not Tanzania you poor deluded nut. And Elvis invented rock and roll. I didn't hear nobody calling it African music then, and I don't believe you now. I've heard plenty of African music, and it don't sound a bit like blues or rock and roll. Blues was invented in Louisiana, just like jazz. Rock and roll comes from Tennessee. Maybe some of the people involved heard some music from Africa one time, but that don't mean they were copying it. You might as well say that the Germans invented rock because Procol Harum ripped off Bach that one time.

	Lets go slow (none / 0) (#75)
	by walwyn on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 05:43:38 AM PST

	here is a site that uses simple language that even an AR should be able to understand. ...black musicians who developed the styles called blues and jazz. These styles added African music patterns to the traditional European-based style of American music. Oh and when the Stones went looking for the roots of R&B they ended up in Morocco.

	Wow (none / 0) (#76)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 05:49:57 AM PST

	And where did this dramatic fusion take place? Louisiana. As for the Stones, you can believe them if you want. Speaking personally, I don't trust their abilities as researchers, and I suspect they found themselves in Morocco for entirely different and hedonistic reasons.

	OK (none / 0) (#80)
	by walwyn on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 07:05:16 AM PST

	Attribute Rock n Roll to the French if you must, but you just sound silly.

	Now you're just being facetious (none / 0) (#82)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 03:35:15 PM PST

	And showing your ignorance. There was a creole influence in the roots of early jazz, certainly. Bix Beiderbecke was a creole. Also, a lot of the African-Americans in New Orleans had come to the United States from Haiti, but blues was created out in the farmlands, under Jim Crow's segregation laws, by working men.

	I've got a strange feeling... (none / 0) (#77)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 05:53:02 AM PST

	The more I read your posts, the more I think we Europeans know more about America than yourself. Except may be bluegrass, country (and eventually some other) all your music is rooted in Africa. Not copied. Rooted. All these musics have been called nigger's music (ragtime, jazz, blues, rock and roll, boogie, R n' B, etc). And your Rock and Roll is a black music covered with white paint (it's very easy to know what black music it is, so I'll let you do some work. Even the dance is inspired by Black people).

	Cool. (none / 0) (#78)
	by RobotSlave on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 06:06:22 AM PST

	I like how you said "it's not going to work" right after it worked. © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	My pen is out of ink. (none / 0) (#79)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 06:34:44 AM PST

	I meant to write "full point-by-point rebuttal", which I believe I spared myself the embarrasment of. I only bothered rebutting the most obvious falsehoods, to save time, before continuing my rant. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Proof? (none / 0) (#49)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 03:41:53 AM PST

	You'll have to try harder. You just said you were the strongest. That's all you said. That doesn't make you better in anyway. And some of your evidences are highly contestable. You are the first economically, but you're not in quality of life. Culturally, you gave us jazz (very good), about all of modern music, and fast food. Big deal! And the USA are not, by all means, a free market democracy . This is one more of your American illusions. Convince me.

	You won't be convinced (none / 0) (#63)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 04:21:12 PM PST

	You're a zealot. Zealots can't be defeated on logical grounds. Look at how you've dismissed the bulk of American culture. Maybe you should pop down to a book store, and see the proof of American cultural ascendance. Almost every single great book of the twentieth century was written by an American.

	I won't be convinced. (none / 0) (#66)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 06:55:02 PM PST

	Because I'm waiting in vain for the facts backing your affirmations. you haven't even tried to convince me that the sale of arms is a good indicator of the freedom of a nation (while I gave you some hints that it is not). You just keep on reciting your mantra, and you call me a zealot? Poor thing. And you go on with one more gratuitous (and false) statement: "Almost every single great book of the twentieth century was written by an American". Sure, you could write a list (and a very long one) of many very good American writers of the last century (I love a lot of them: Capote, Faulkner, Kerouak, Hemingway, there are too many). But you know I wouldn't have any difficulty to answer that with a list of European writers (and African and Asian too) that could very well be longer. Well, I suggest that we stop now, unless you decide to finally show some evidence for your "truth". I am already convinced that the USA are the one and only superpower and I didn't need you for that. I am convinced too that they are not inhabited by a bunch of morons, but you have nothing to do with that. Auf Wiedersehen! Ciao! Adeus....

	Are you that dumb? (none / 0) (#67)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 07:20:15 PM PST

	How on Earth can you consider yourself free if the only people in youy nation who are allowed to own guns are the police and the military? How do you plan to defend your freedoms? With bows and arrows? Sorry, they're banned too. Americans are free because we own guns. That's how we guarantee our freedom. So here's an American sentiment for you, wherever you hail from: Fuck Off.

	If you can't buy a gun... (none / 0) (#68)
	by The Mad Scientist on Thu Aug 1st, 2002 at 11:19:54 PM PST

	...buy a lathe and a couple of other necessary tools, and make whatever you need. The limits are only the sky and your mechanical skills. You aren't limited to guns; a crossbow can be formidable too, especially when modern materials are used; and it is very silent. Another possibility, if you know what end of the soldering iron is theh hot one, is an electric stun gun. Again, the only limits here are your technical abilities - no voltage nor amperage limits imposed on what you can buy. Winding the transformer coils can be a bit boring, though - but that is what the video rentals are for. Don't forget to soak the transformer in something - I prefer bee wax - otherwise it will "sing". With a bit of fantasy, you can design a whole set of concealable weapons, by slight modifications of the everyday stuff. Also, the world is full of weapon parts - ie, the tubes for the steering engine wheel axis bearing from some trucks have exactly the suitable inner diameter to be used as shotgun barrels, and they are made from suitably good steel.

	Last chance! (none / 0) (#81)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 09:11:16 AM PST

	I may be dumb, but you really don't understand. I could answer you this way: how on Earth can you consider yourself free if you must walk armed to defend your freedoms? But I won't. You see, my friend, to prove your point, you just have to tell me where is the ennemy, explain why he is the ennemy, and why it is necessary to stay vigilant and armed to fight him. I have an idea of who you feel is the ennemy, but I'm just waiting for your confirmation. Then, we'll have some fun. Waiting......

	Easy (none / 0) (#83)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 03:43:43 PM PST

	We are armed against the threat of tyranny. Now, we have been blessed by good government for two years now, and nobody has been agitating for revolution for a while, but we know, because we hold the proof in our hands, that any government that tries to put one over on us -- to take our God given rights away -- well sir, that government is going to have a hard time indeed. You need to understand, everything about the American government is designed to protect America from bad government. Most of the time, it isn't needed. Just the threat of retribution keeps most governments in line, but it's good to know that we, as armed citizens, have the power to say "No" to the Man, should we ever need to. For some reason, eurotrash always need this explained to them in teeny-tiny words.

	You seriously underestimate (none / 0) (#84)
	by because it isnt on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 04:22:18 PM PST

	the US military's ability to kick everyone in the country's arse 8 million shades of blue. You might say "hey, the US military are good guys, they wouldn't fire on their own people", but that's what they did in the Gulf War! adequacy.org -- because it isn't

Resistance (none / 0) (#85<