Adequacy front page
Stories Diaries Polls Users
Google

Web Adequacy.org
Home About Topics Rejects Abortions
This is an archive site only. It is no longer maintained. You can not post comments. You can not make an account. Your email will not be read. Please read this page if you have questions.
 Chip Hell -- the AMD story

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Feb 06, 2002
 Comments:
[editor's note, by jsm] This story was a long time in the writing. It all stems back to a a rather controversial story we published here a while ago, which contained a rather controversial assertion about chip maker AMD. Specifically, it claimed that AMD chips were made in sweatshops in the Third World. Naturally, we at adequacy would never print such an outrageous claim without checking it up. Here are the results of our investigations, with only the lightest of editorial and legal cuts.
globalization

More stories about Globalization
Yumi bai spikim Tok Pisin nau!
The British Empire - Why it was so good.
There was not enough violence in Genoa
Philip Morris Is Right
How to Smash Global Industrial Capitalism Without Leaving Your Bar-Stool
Welcome to the Third World
The Death of the Channel
Breaking Down the Language Barrier
Shit or Get Off the Pot
A Guide to the United Kingdom for Americans.

More stories by
jsm

The Gay Tax
LNUX = FC?
Linux Linux Linux -- Part One -- Trying to Be a Hero
A Declaration of Independence for the Indebted States of America
Kill Yr Idols: Nelson Mandela
Open Letter to a Stripper
Milosevic Goes Free, Thanks to Godwin's Law!
Tax the Childless, Double Votes for Parents
Luv Yr Enemies -- Jesus Christ
Open Letter to the USA: Please Don't Drown Me
The Real Darwin Awards
Harnessing the Computational Power of Autism
'English Style Lovers', with jsm
Why the Bombings Mean That We Must Support My Politics
Kill Yr Idols - Donald Knuth
Linux Linux Linux Part Two - Crossing the Linux Fault Threshold
Teaching Astrology In Schools
We Licke Icke
Slashdot Subscriptions and VA Software -- what's going on?
Wicca and the Insult to Religion
Linux Zealot and Economics 101
A New Kind of Feminist Science
Two high-tech companies. Two chip production facilities. Two products regarded by most of their users as broadly interchangeable. But between the glittering, clean modern plants of Intel, with their antistatic-suited, health-insured, unionised and skilled workers, and the dirty, hot, malodorous infernos of AMD, where malnourished children eke out a dangerous living amid the splashes of red-hot molten silicon, there is a chasm that spans worlds. Very few casual computer users ever realise (their ignorance helped by a smug, complacent industry media) quite the extent of the human cost which goes into AMD's suspiciously budget-priced chips.

Our investigation started on a tip-off from roving East Asian adequacy.org editor Kip, who began married life in the unstable tropical paradise of the South China Sea last year. Setting up house in the Philippines as a high-priced software mercenary, he became somewhat peturbed at the number of children he saw on the streets everyday, begging for food and missing fingers, thumbs or occasionally whole limbs. Children and young women disfigured by burn scars, or blinded and carrying the marks of corrosive chemical spills. Over time, he began to realise that a disproportionately high number of these casualties of a developing economy were wearing polo shirts, baseball caps and beach shorts carrying a logo familiar to him from his days as a high-end embedded systems designer in London; the logos of chip giant AMD.

When I got off the plane at Manila International Airport, I was met by T Reginald Gibbons, the contributor of the original article which had caused all the trouble. Talking on the shuttle bus from the airport into town, I was struck by his mild manner and devout Christian belief. Although I have, rather notoriously, had a few run-ins with right-wing Christians on the staff of adequacy.org, Reginald impressed me with the sincerity of his faith, and the intensity of his passion to expose this scandal.

On my second evening in Manila, after sleeping off the jet-lag, I took a stroll with Reginald into the area of town known as "Chip Hell". This was a short ride by motorcycle taxi away from Reginald's comfortable white-porched villa on the fashionable east side of town, but it might as well have been the other side of the world. A ranshackle assembly of tin huts, chicken-wire and improvised drainage, with pigs running loose in the streets, walls tied together with gaffer tape, and everywhere the stench of ammonia and human excrement. Looming ominously above the shanty town were the two huge corrugated huts which made up AMD's main assembly plant. This was the "fab" (short for "favela", from the Spanish for "slum").

We walked on, trying to ignore the snapping of the stray dogs which roamed at will through the AMD fab, taking in the sights and sounds, and always the omnipresent reek of the toxic PCBs used in chip manufacture. A prematurely aged woman stood by the side of the road, with a gaggle of small children clustered round her ankles as she laboriously turned the handle of an adapted clothes-mangle, while her husband balanced nearby on two factory-second artificial legs, his hands shaking as he poured liquidised window putty through a funnel onto the rollers. The two of them were squeezing out motherboards -- the lowest of the low in the jungle pecking order of the fab. Over the road, a young man sat, himself pinched with poverty, but eyeing the aged pair through his counterfeit Oakley sunglasses with the air of a feudal blacksmith surveying the churls in the fields. In his hands, he held a pair of tin-snips and a small hammer; next to his roadside stool, a stak of scavenged Pepsi-Cola cans. With unbelievable manual dexterity, he took a sheet of motherboard still sticky and viscous from the press, slammed it flat onto an upturned steel bucket in front of him, and began snipping metal from a can, hammering it out flat and applying it to the surface of the motherboard before it cooled. The acrid fumes rising up from his workbench were already turning his eyes yellow, but completed motherboards would sell for US$0.60 a kilogram when the AMD factory cart came round in the morning, and this would provide him with enough money to buy ever-plentiful heroin from the child peddlers who continually tugged at our coats. When he put his hammer down and started looking for a vein, I decided I'd had enough and asked Reginald if we could return to the hotel.

The next day our work started in earnest with the first interview:

Maria-Consuela J was a young union organiser and womens' rights activist nicknamed "Conchita" in Chip Hell. She told us about the long assembly benches in the big halls, where young women sat for ten-hour shifts without so much as a bathroom break, gluing chips into motherboards.

"The cowhide glue is the worst part. They make it out the back of the factory, stirring it up in big vats. Any dead animal, or leftover bones when we have meat, they go into the glue vats. The smell is horrible and it makes your fingers red".

Conchita showed us her hands; every finger had at least one red, angry blister, several of which were burst and weeping. I was amazed at her toughness; despite the obvious physical pain, she maintained the aztlan.net workers' rights website from a scavenged Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and a computer cobbled together from cast-off parts in the back room of a shack which served as the community centre. Her jaw was firm and her gaze unwavering as she told us about the way in which the female workers in the motherboard hall were treated.

"The supervisors are pigs. Worse than pigs. They demand sexual favours and make crude remarks to us all the time. We are a very traditional Catholic country, so the women find this very shameful. If you talk back to them they will give you the worst motherboards; the ones with bubbles in them, or with grease in the plastic. These are harder to make the glue stick, so you end up losing money".

Guido V-R was an elite worker in the heart of the fabrication plant itself. Although this put him practically in the aristocracy of the fab, he was still left in no doubt about his status by the predominantly white senior management.

"I am a craftsman. My father carved miniature religious basreliefs on the sides of cigar boxes. I inherited his tools, and now I use them to carve the silicon chips. But the yanquis do not respect. They abuse us constantly. We spend our days making their chips, and they just shout at us. They call us "Taco" and "Nethack". I do not know why. Filipinos are not Mexicans. They are very ignorant."

Guido was not involved in union activity:

"I do not join the union, because the craftsmen in the chip room are not allowed and I cannot lose my job; I have family to support. But we have our own ways. If the bosses ride us too hard then --kkzzzpt!-- (he gestured in the air with his razor-sharp chip-engraving awl) a hairline scratch across twenty wafers! When the rejects come back from the consumers, they know that we are unhappy and they lay off of us for a while". As one might expect, Guido did not hold AMD's quality control in very high regard: "The qualitores are the old men, the simple ones, those who are no good for anything else. They are only there to keep the ISO9000 people happy. Why should I make good chips for $0.90 an hour?"

Pablo C was lucky enough to be employed at the chip plant, and so was a rung above the unfortunate outworkers of the kind we had seen the day before in Chip Hell. However, as an illiterate, unskilled manual laborer, his position was as fragile as the AMD silicon wafers themselves. His task was to spend the day lifting the 200-pound slabs of silicon from the quarry wagons, then pounding them into fine powder and finally tipping this powder into the furnaces which would smelt it into the molded wafers which formed the raw material for Guido. We saw him at work; the conditions were appalling beyond my ability to describe. Working shifts of up to 20 hours when conditions in the global SDRAM market demanded it, Pablo was forced to the heights of physical exertion, all the time inhaling the choking silicon dust and braving the fumes and satanic heat of the blast furnaces which gave Chip Hell its name.

"Every day I get weaker. The dust burns my lungs until I cannot breathe. The heat makes me feel that I am dying. I need to stop and rest, but if I stop, the furnace will stop and I will not be paid. My eyes are scratched by the smoke and the fumes. I feel my muscles start to fail. Soon I will be too weak to work on the quarry line and my place will be taken by one of the younger boys. I am old now. I am 24 and I am the oldest man on the line. Soon I will be unable to work, and I will join the pourers and pressers of motherboard resin."

We were shocked by this. I had estimated Pablo's age to be 45 at least. His breathing was clearly giving him trouble, and we tried to get medical attention for him, but the meagre clinic with which AMD supplied Chip Hell did not have the scanner he needed. Pablo refused our offer of a trip to a hospital in Manila; he seemed convinced that a popular local remedy of pounded tree bark would cure his advanced silicosis. We saw no hope in the favela for him.


Back in the USA, I spoke to Gordon Moore, chief executive of the American Microprocessing Devices Corporation, an industry body dedicated to lobbying Congress for a level playing field between domestic high-end chip manufacturers and the cut-price Asian operators. He gave us some industry context for the domestic economic consequences of Chip Hell:

"Well, what you've got to understand is that AMD are producing a low-quality, cut-price product, of the kind that it's difficult for us to compete with, because we have respect, for our customers and our employees, and that means that we just can't run the kind of operation they do. AMD basically make chips which are about four years behind our technology here in the USA, like 200KHZ Pentiums, but then they 'overclock' them, which is kind of like turning the dial back on a car, and sell them over here as 1GhZ Pentium Pros. And we're saying to the government that, hey, that isn't right. And so far, they'd rather preserve their globalisation and their GATT Treaty than safeguard American workers' jobs. It's a outrage."

It is not the place of mere weblogs like adequacy.org to comment on important matters of international economy and diplomacy. And, in this post 9/11 climate, it is not appropriate for me to comment on the case for or against globalization. But, as Mr. Moore points out, the AMD policy of raiding the market with its "overclocked" chips, directed squarely toward the lucrative teenage "hacker" and "Linux" market, is bad for the American chip industry. And in Manila, I saw the human consequences of this company's manufacturing practices for myself. When I looked into Chip Hell.


Thank Goodness we have jsm! (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by frozenwoody on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 06:52:27 PM PST
I never realized this was going on! Fortunately, someone has notified AMD's stock message board of this tracesty, so I expect we'll see some sort of resolution to this ruthless exploitation.


'travesty' NOT 'tracesty' (eom) (none / 0) (#6)
by frozenwoody on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 06:56:18 PM PST
(eom)


 
But (2.75 / 4) (#7)
by PotatoError on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 09:02:23 PM PST
oh I forget what I was going to say now
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

 
This is EXACTLY the type of reporting (5.00 / 3) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 09:10:42 PM PST
that I expect from Adequacy.org. Hard-hitting, uncompromising, and with no "spin" whatsoever. It would be interesting to get some reactions from people who own AMD-based machines... are they proud of the slavery and environmental rape that they are directly funding? However, since these machines have a maximum uptime of 20 minutes or so before they overheat and must be shut down, I doubt that we will hear much.

Thanks for an interesting read. I've never been prouder to be an Intel owner.


AMD rulez (5.00 / 3) (#9)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 10:15:14 PM PST
I'm own an AMD. I wanted the cheapest product ever and I got it. I never see the reboots you mentio

[TIMEOUT]


 
re: proud intel owner (2.00 / 3) (#90)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 09:45:05 AM PST
lol, um, you do realize that this article is a spoof right?


spoof (1.50 / 2) (#94)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 10:09:11 AM PST
Too many people don't realize it is just a spoof. I can't imagine how they could believe that the same tools used by one man to carve religious basreliefs on cigar boxes could be used by another to carve useable processors out of silicon.

Besides, Intel chips may be assembled in the US, but they are treated with an extract from the bone marrow of pygmies. What do you want on your concience today?

I've given up both manufacturers' products. My computer runs a 1.5Ghz potato chip made from evironmentally friendly bio-degradable material from right here in the good-ole USA... Idaho.


spoof? (2.50 / 2) (#100)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 11:07:43 AM PST
That potato chip comes from potatos that are grown on land stolen from Native Americans. Besides, the chemicals and pesticides used by corporate agrivulture are leeching into the water supply, causing untold effects on the children.


I am (2.50 / 2) (#102)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 11:35:07 AM PST
I'm a Native American. Navajo to be exact. By computer runs on corn. My family doesn't use chemical pesticides. Organic baby!


 
The Old Lesson: Don't Believe Everything You Read (none / 0) (#113)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 12:54:43 PM PST
(Before I tear into this, you should note that I only came across this site via a link to this story, so my critcisms of adequecy.org are based only a half-hour of perusing the site).

My only question is 'how does this website expect to get taken seriously?' This is just another alternative-perspective site that asks to me, a small-c conservative-sceptic, to 'think outside the box' by stuffing me into their 'box;' i.e., by offerring me obviously biased, left-wing polemics against "BIG EVIL," be it government, business, or whatever.

The person below posted:

"that I expect from Adequacy.org. Hard-hitting, uncompromising, and with no "spin" whatsoever."

You call that unconfirmed, unsourced libel-safari into Asia "hard-hitting journalism?" Do you really think that *linking every fourth word or phrase* to a novel on amazon.com is called research, or confirming your sources? Superficially, the links make it look like they done they're homework, but to me it's
mere polish.

"It would be interesting to get some reactions from people who own AMD-based machines..."

I didn't react as an AMD-owner, but as rational, intelligent person, who just wants to speak out on drivel, to prevent it from further dumbing down on-going debate in society.

"are they proud of the slavery and environmental rape that they are directly funding?"

Before you accuse me and thousands of other people of being accessories-after-the-fact to international crimes, why don't we ask someone else *other than* adequecy.org?

"However, since these machines have a maximum uptime of 20 minutes or so before they overheat and must be shut down, I doubt that we will hear much."

Pardon? You must be confused. I understand that pentium4s internally under-cloak themselves by 50% if they exceed temperature tolerances. Is that what you are talking about?

"Thanks for an interesting read. I've never been prouder to be an Intel owner."

I'm not touching that.

Sites like adequecy.org practice sensationalism because they can't particpate in serious debates about social-political issues, and they can't participate because their ideas are convincing only to themselves. Dissing AMD with a contrived, 'from-the-font-lines' expose probably achieved nothing but further alienating people like me. That article was biased to the point of being crass. It's libelous bunk trying to pass itself off as journalism-verite.



I would like to help. (2.50 / 2) (#121)
by derek3000 on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 03:23:18 PM PST
We have stories just for people like you.

Now open your mouth--here comes the plane!




----------------
"Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

 
alien (none / 0) (#162)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Feb 9th, 2002 at 09:40:44 AM PST
If this and any other adequacy.org article in any way alienates you then you are probably an anti controversial alien.


 
Right on the nose (none / 0) (#224)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 21st, 2002 at 08:03:24 PM PST
If all this is actually true then where are the pics of the fab plant?

"However, since these machines have a maximum uptime of 20 minutes or so before they overheat and must be shut down, I doubt that we will hear much."

Uh... I've run on my AMD chip for 25 days strait without it crashing or restarting. The only reason it shutdown was because the power when out in my house. The 20 min uptime is probably because of the shitty Macroshit Winblows you are running. Get Win2k and your crashing problems will dissappear.



The reason AMD chips are cheaper is not because they use child labour in 3rd world countries. They are trying to steal some of the market share away from intel which they are doing by makeing better products at lower prices. This article is nothing but a pile of Intel promoting Bull Shit.


 
AMD baby, yeah! (none / 0) (#161)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Feb 9th, 2002 at 09:32:30 AM PST
Ok, while its stable let me be quick to post this. My AMD is awesome. It runs hot, as you would expect, but it was so cheap. I bought mine while I was driving through StarBucks the other day. Cost me less than a cup of coffee. And will probably last me just as long. But it disturbs me that all those children don't have access to this wonderful Starbucks coffee. They wouldn't feel so bad about their fingers or limbs if they could grab some refreshing drivethrough espresso.


 
RE: This is EXACTLY the type of reporting (none / 0) (#215)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Feb 11th, 2002 at 03:13:58 PM PST
What the FU<K is wrong with yoU? You all at adequacy have one hell of a problem. I think you should just kill yourselves and get yourselves out of the gene pool. I have an AMD that clocks at 1003 mhz, and is better than any pentium sh*t you can throw at me. I run my computer 24/7 and it has NEVER overheated, and you can trust me, I found no blood or defects to my motherboard or chip. The processor cannot be made by hand. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU? Your fingers are too big to handle something you can only see in a microscope, but you'd probably be unwilling to accept the fact that things are made of atoms huh? Another thing, one MACHINE can make a ton of processors/motherboards a day at half the price of 90 cents an hour. I know that for a fact. You go help the world and do us all a favor by killing yourself.


 
This is so BS!! (none / 0) (#225)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 22nd, 2002 at 05:56:24 AM PST
This isn't for adults! This is just BullS for proud, ignorant brats over 35 years old!

Hand-manufactured motherboards!?? HAHAHA! Like that could be possible!
You should just see AMD's factory at Dresden, Germany! It's one of the worlds' most advanced factory!

Shame on you, Adequacy! To pretend you did go to Filipines! >:(

Thank God that AMD is giving us the best PC processors available for desktop/laptop PCs! Intel is over-expensive and under-performance, compared to any AMD processor!

Stop this AMD nonsence!


 
Wow... I can't *believe* this... (none / 0) (#232)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 26th, 2002 at 08:14:22 PM PST
Geez... To try to even begin to reply to this guy is infuriating. OK, to start, I have been an AMD customer for 7 years. I have owned an AMD K-5, K6-2, and currently have an Athlon. AMD processors are the most stable, reliable, and best-performing chips I have ever used in my entire life. They beat out Intel chips in every area possible. I wouldn't switch to an Intel chip if you paid me.
Oh, and by the way: AMD makes CPU's and endorses chipsets... They don't make motherboards or SDRAM. And if any glue were used on motherboards (it's not) it would be made out of polymers, not animal parts (how on EARTH would that make glue???).
And to further enlighten you: AMD's plants are in several different countries, and they are high-tech development facilities, not sweatshops. Chips can't be made by children; you need experienced technicians with complex, expensive equipment.
I can't believe a site that is as full of crap as this one even exists on the Internet. You people obviously have no life and do nothing except be paranoid and put companies down 24/7. It also surprises me that someone hasn't hacked this site yet... I bet if articles like these continue it will soon ;). I look forward to more of these articles so I can laugh again and we can all prove you wrong again.

--Narso


 
WOW!!!!! (none / 0) (#233)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 27th, 2002 at 10:03:53 PM PST
Anyone that believes the crap these morons are spewing out about AMD has to have an IQ of less than 80. Go swing from a tree or jump through hoops at Seaworld you retards.

Hahahahaha



 
Think different! (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by gNinja on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 10:23:04 PM PST
AMD's third world child labor has been a concern of mine for a long time. That's one of the reasons I always encourage people to use Apple computers.

The Power PC chips were developed by IBM and are made by Moterola. Together they're as American as apple pie.

Also the new Apple is based on Linux and is completely open source.




uhhh, nope (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 12:57:01 AM PST
The Power PC chips were developed by IBM and are made by Moterola. Together they're as American as apple pie.

The microprocessor known as the PPC was developed by Motorola (spell it righ jackass). Through a joint partnership between Apple IBM and Motorola (AIM) IBM licensed the technology can also produce the chip. Kind of like how Smasung also manufactures chips for Sony's PS2.

Also the new Apple is based on Linux and is completely open source.

WRONG! MacOSX is based on Rhapsody and NeXTStep. In other words MacOS plus BSD4.4 (support from the FreeBSD community) and Mach 3.0. It's Unix based not Linux based. MacOSX is not open source. It's kernel (Darwin) however is. Most of the remaining portion are closed sourced and propietary. Try actually visiting the open source section of the Apple website first ok?


ATTENTION: NAWL (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 02:28:24 AM PST
Your lies are transparent. Seek truth before anonymity.


 
uhhhh... yeah. (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 09:18:58 AM PST
Hi, I am gNinja but I'm not logged in right now.

>>spell it righ jackass

I think you understood whom I was refering to. Quibbling about spelling mistakes does not make for intelegent discussion.

There was no reason to be rude either. If you don't act like an adult people will treat you like a child. Remember, no one likes a teenager.

You also seem to be misinformed about Linux on the PPC. Read this page for more information.

--gNinja


tisk tisk (none / 0) (#54)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 10:55:05 AM PST
Quibbling about spelling mistakes does not make for intelegent discussion.

It does at this site.


 
Logic (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by jvance on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 12:33:11 PM PST
Linux was ported to the Mac
Therefore, MacOSX is based on Linux

Linux was ported to PCs
Therefore WinXP is based on Linux

Ergo, WinXP is an illegal hacker operating system.

Your logic is entirely Adequate.

Speaking of Adequacy, how come all the editors are commenting on this article anonymously. Lawsuit threat?
--
Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

Clarifications (none / 0) (#132)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 11:56:14 PM PST
Look, just because Linux was ported to a specific chipset doesn't mean the primary OS is associated with Linux.

MacOSX has a Unix core, not Linux. All flavors of Windows NT (Past 3.51, which means Win2k and XP as well) have bits of code borrowed from Linux, but nothing really big. EG: Winsock, originally developed by a third party, was made based on BSD Linux's Sockets functionality, and there would be no consumer internet without it. Microsoft bought that to put into NT. There are numerous other examples of this sort of thing, but I won't bother with that.


Re : Clarifications (none / 0) (#145)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Feb 9th, 2002 at 02:25:17 AM PST
You need some :
1- Linux is not legally a UNIX, but it is in fact. You can't say it doesn't have a Unix core.
2- Microsoft never borrowed code from Linux (at least it has never been proved). Microsoft won't, because of the GPL. Microsoft borrowed, as many others, from BSD, which is totally legal, and encouraged by the BSD guys.
3- There is no such thing as BSD Linux.


Sigh (5.00 / 1) (#217)
by jvance on Tue Feb 12th, 2002 at 03:44:00 PM PST
Either you two are stupendously thick twats, or the cleverest meta-trolls I've ever encountered.

Okham's Razor suggests the former.
--
Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

 
whoa, nice research (none / 0) (#60)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 12:57:30 PM PST
You also seem to be misinformed about Linux on the PPC

Linux distributions which run on the PowerPC have been around for quite some time. It's an old article which simple states that Linux will ve proted to the Mac. It makes no mention of MacOS being based on linux or a Linux distro. Linux distros which run on the PPC are freely available. One of them is Yellow Dog. By the way did you bother to check the date of the article (Feb 5, 1996) or even read it?

The kernel used in MacOSX (Darwin) is a BSD4.4(FreeBSD)/Mach3.0 based kernel. Yes it is open source. However, that doesn't mean it is Linux.
What is Darwin? Darwin is the core of Mac OS X. The Darwin kernel is based on FreeBSD and Mach 3.0 technologies and provides protected memory and pre-emptive multitasking. Darwin runs on PowerPC-based Macintosh computers and a version is also available for x86-compatible computers.
Just in case you're an idiot, the x86 version runs on the IBM based PC.


hi, NAWL (none / 0) (#66)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 02:59:13 PM PST
You bring up a few good points but you are still confusing a number of issues.

You seem to be implying that I think that OSX is a Linux distribution. Anyone can see this is not the case. OSX is based on Linux in the sense that it took what Linux was and made it better by far.

The first thing that they did was replace X11 with a user friendly GUI (Graphical User Interface). Then they improved the sound support for the best latencies available under any operating system. And thirdly they added opengl support so that the OSX updated version of Linux could support fast paced games.

OSX is not the same thing as "old school" Linux even though it is based on the Linux "kernel." You can actually still get the old versions of Linux. There are still a few people who use "old school" Linux for print servers but most people prefer the modern OSX from Apple.

Another thing that you are confusing is the "marketoid" vs the "developer" information. Of course the marketting division is not going to talk about Linux because they want to differentiate themselves from the "old school" Linux.

For future reference, one way you can tell developer information from information meant for ordinairy users is the number of images on the web page. The Linux web page had no images and is clearly meant for developers only. The other web page had lots of images and is only meant for new users.

HTH (Hope That Helps).

-gNinja


still (none / 0) (#72)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 07:53:25 PM PST
...OSX updated version of Linux ...

Yet you are still calling MacOSX a version of LINUX. Try typing U-N-I-X. MacOSX is not like taking a linux and making it better. Linux is a kernel. The kernel in MacOSX is Darwin (FreeBSD and Mach 3.0).

Is it that difficult to figure out? MacOSX is a UNIX based OS not a version of Linux or Linux based. Version of Linux by the way are expressed numerically (2.4.xx). MacOSX is more like taking FreeBSD Desktop and making it look pretty and addind feature. Also OpenGL can be found in most linux based OSes.

The first thing that they did was replace X11 with a user friendly GUI (Graphical User Interface).

I think you are confusing windowing system with GUI. A GUI is a window manager.

OSX is not the same thing as "old school" Linux even though it is based on the Linux "kernel

Noooo. The kernel used in MacOSX (Darwin) is FreeBSD and Mach 3.0 based. FreeBSD is UNIX. Next you'll be posting the FreeBSD is a version of Linux. U-N-I-X, got it?

You can actually still get the old versions of Linux. There are still a few people who use "old school" Linux for print servers but most people prefer the modern OSX from Apple.

I'm not gonna go into versions but yes you still can get older version of linux like 2.2 instead of 2.4. Older versions doesn't mean they are handicapped. Linux can be geared. There are print servers, mail servers, etc which used stripped down version of the linux kernel.

Of course the marketting division is not going to talk about Linux because they want to differentiate themselves from the "old school" Linux.

If you are going to type stupid shit don't bother. There is no such thing as "old school" linux as linux is a kernel. Kind of like Kernel32 or NTkernel in Windows. I can make a distro and make it look just a pretty as MacOSX. Much of MacOSX is taken from the development of NeXTStep which Apple acquired from Steve Jobs when he left and formed a new OS company.

Compare the history of NeXT to the history of Linux. Which has been around longer? Which has been more popular (popular enough for companies like Apple to take notice. Why don't you head over to FreeBSD.org and announce how MacOSX is based on Linux and not FreeBSD. Watch how fast their developers (which work on the open source kernel along side Apple) get pissed off. I'll be laughing when they attack the shit out of box. Why don't you compare the Darwin source code to that of FreeBSD and Linux. Which one does it resemble more?

The Linux web page had no images and is clearly meant for developers only.

And what Linux website would that be as there is no official site for linux? Would it be Linux.org? Maybe you mean Linux.com? gnu.org and fsf.org are NOT linux websites. The only reason they don't have a bunch of pictures is so that they load quickly.

Think Different.


one more thing (none / 0) (#74)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 08:12:37 PM PST
You forgot to mention that Linux is licensed under the GNU GPL. Kind of funny how Darwin is NOT.

Apple Public Source License
Apple Binary Driver license
Third Party Driver License

If MacOSX were a version of or linux based it too would have to be under the GNU GPL now wouldn't it?


 
old school... (none / 0) (#76)
by gNinja on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 10:39:02 PM PST
>There is no such thing as "old school" linux as linux is a kernel.

Old school linux is things like Mandrake and Debian. The new school would be BSD and especially Apple OSX.

>Kind of like Kernel32 or NTkernel in Windows.

Right. That is exactly what I have been saying.

>And what Linux website would that be as there is no official site for linux?

I'm talking about the web pages on the Apple.com website. The one that talk about Linux are for developers only and thus do not have any graphics. (Partly this is also because old school linux did not support graphics until recently).


what!?! (none / 0) (#104)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 11:41:30 AM PST
Old school linux is things like Mandrake and Debian. The new school would be BSD and especially Apple OSX.

That would make more sense if BSD and OSX were linux. You can't call OSX "old school linux" if it doesn't use linux. And FreeBSD is not linux either. FreeBSD is older than linux.

I think I get it though. You're probably one of those nimrods that believes that linux is some generic term used to describe open source software.
Oh you have an OS. And it's open source? Well, that automaticall means it's linux and therefore under the GPL.
Linux is one of a number of Unix-like OSes. It is not a gerenric term used to describe them all. There are other Unix-like OSes. Most of them are not under the GPL. Some examples of non-linux open source OSes

FreeBSD
OpenBSD
NetBSD
AtheOS
DarwinOS (from Apple)
and more

The one that talk about Linux are for developers only and thus do not have any graphics. (Partly this is also because old school linux did not support graphics until recently).

First off linux based OSes have supported graphics for quite some time. A GUI has been available with all the pretty colors for a number of years. As far as the Linux developer pages on Apple's website those are about porting Linux apps and utilities to OSX and FreeBSD. It's just like you can find information about porting linux and other OSS to AtheOS with litte to no modification.


NAWL, how many times must you be told? (none / 0) (#122)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 03:24:09 PM PST
Lunix is not a technology, it is a political ideology. Discussions of Lunix are overwhelmingly political and rarely informed by attention to the software engineering practices, facts and theories that are normally of interest to Microsoft programmers. The differing "versions" of Lunix are distinguished by the sectarian politics of their adherents and the internal theological disputes (eg, Open vs. Free) those adherents entertain between updates to porn sites. The BSD versions of Lunix permit capitalism in their license and are therefore known as libertarian instead of communist distributions.

NAWL, your spin doctoring isnt appreciated here; not because it's effective, but because it is an insult to our intelligence. How much longer must we tolerate you angry, annoying Lunix mosquitoes buzzing about our shins?

*slap*

*flick*


who is NAWL? (none / 0) (#129)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 10:35:51 PM PST
Lunix is not a technology, it is a political ideology
So let me get this straight. Linux is NOT a [now] 16MB kernel created by Linux Torvalds and presented to the world in 1991? It is some political ideology? So in other words you are claiming that it is nothing more than a generic term used to describe free open source software? Man are you stupid.

The simple fact that you sit there and talk about BSD linux is idiotic. Hello, BSD and FreeBSD are MUCH older than linux. Linux is a technology. What amazes me more is that linux was available on the public domain for quite sometime before Linus Torvalds put it under the GNU GPL (which has been around almost as long as the Free Software Foundation, 1985).

Open source software is as much older than linux. I suggest you do a little research into history. You might find that that most of the first software was OSS. You might also find that the US government fostered open source, open source, and open licenses for years until it began consentrating on other things like pathetic cold bullshit during the mid 80s and into the 90s. Now I'm not saying it was all bullshit. But investigated someone because the wore a Red Shirt!?!

Here's a really good resource. Oh and just in case you wanna go off on some pathetic rant about hacked links, you can read the book in its entirety this Fall when it's published by Penn State Press.

One more thing, LUnix is not to be confused with linux. LUnix is LittleUnix for the c64/128 and other 8bit computers.


 
third world child labor facility (none / 0) (#105)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 11:45:59 AM PST
You can find a picture of the slump mentioned in the article, just follow the link!
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/AboutAMD/0,,51_52_502_509,00.html


 
Nice shot, wrong target (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 10:36:04 PM PST
I admire the effort that went into this piece - several hours' hard work concocting absolute (albeit amusing) bullshit - but I don't think that satirising the struggle of workers in developing countries is a worthy activity for someone of such evident intelligence and creativity.

Why not have a go at the corporations who run the *real* sweatshops? Why not apply your talent to helping the victims, rather than sending them up?

We in developed countries enjoy much better working and living conditions than people in poorer countries. Let's give workers in the Philippines, and elsewhere in the "South", our support, not our derision.

Sincerely,
Bruce


Nice shot, wrong target, redux (none / 0) (#13)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 11:21:16 PM PST
I admire the global thinking that went into this criticism - several minutes of kneejerk liberal hand-wringing - but I don't think pestering the columnists of adequacy.org is a worthy activity for someone of your obviously superior social conscience.

Why not have a go at the governments and corporations who don't give a damn what happens on adequacy.org? Why not apply your bleeding heart to the injustices that make it ache so?

We of the developed countries can't be bothered reworking your last paragraph to make it adequate. Parade your impotent fist shaking elsewhere.

Sincerely,
T Reginald Gibbons, Manila


Sincerely (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 04:18:55 AM PST
I sincerely hope that Adequacy.org goes down together with other sites that spread this level off misinformation. And Reginald, keep it up, your narrow-minded, prejudice posts are funny to read for a person more intelligent than your average potato.

/anonymous


 
I have not open sauced my comment (none / 0) (#70)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 04:32:49 PM PST
TRG

I would like to remind you that my comments are copyright. They are not open source - I don't give you license to mangle them for your own purposes.

What you have done to my comment is tantamount to reverse engineering, and we all know how naughty that is.

Bruce


 
So hold still, I'm reloading... (none / 0) (#49)
by wumingzi on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 09:55:51 AM PST
Why not have a go at the corporations who run the "real" sweatshops? Why not apply your talent to helping the victims, rather than sending them up?

Bruce, let me ask you a question. Have you ever BEEN anywhere where they run sweatshops, or do you just read about them on anti-globalization web pages?

Go to Manila sometime. The smell alone is an experience. Better still, go to Guangzhou (aka Canton) the big city on the Pearl River Delta. Take a walk around the train station. Every day, several thousand people get off the train. The folks from the countryside you can spot in a heartbeat. They're shoddily dressed, they're skinny, and they have a look of absolute despair on their face. This is not the "I'm having a bad hair day" look. This is what happens when pretty much every day since you were born was a bad hair day, and things ain't looking up soon. This face will etch itself into your memory forever.

These people stand on the street with signs made of cardboard or scrap wood which say "Zao1 Yuan2 Gong1" (looking for work). These guys know what sweatshop jobs are about. That's why they came here.

Now all this description and detail is to drive a point home. Tell me why these people keep coming off the train, hundreds every day, day in, day out. Tell me why the university-educated men and women I met in Manila dream about getting a job as a maid in Hong Kong or Taipei for the princely sum of $450/month. Explain why these people don't just stay in their happy pastoral farm villages and I'll hear you out on sweatshop conditions.



j.


The Dream (none / 0) (#65)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 02:15:17 PM PST
Wu Xiansheng

Yes I have been to Manila. I haven't been to Guangzhou, but I've been to Shenyang and seen the signs you describe. I've also been to Bangkok and some places in Indonesia.

Yes indeed, many people would rather seek work in an Asian city than remain in the Asian countryside. This is a similar phenomenon to what happened in England during the industrial revolution. A key difference is that England was profiting handsomely from its empire.

Today, of course, that empire is gone, but Western countries still profit mightily from the imbalance between labour costs in developed countries and those in less developed countries. I can buy a nice shirt with what I earn in two hours. I am happy to pay what I earn in three hours, if the extra 50% went to the people who made the shirt.

If we in the West paid fairer prices for our consumer goods, workers could - I said could, not would - be more fairly paid.

Then the internal immigrants you allude to could pursue a better future, rather than just a dream.

Bruce


... and the awful reality... (none / 0) (#75)
by wumingzi on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 10:19:44 PM PST
Wu Xiansheng

Yes I have been to Manila. I haven't been to Guangzhou, but I've been to Shenyang and seen the signs you describe.


Ni de zhongwen bu cuo! Ni zhu zhongguo duo jiu?

A key difference is that England was profiting handsomely from its empire.

Sorry to get pedantic on you sir, but certain people in England were profiting handsomely off the labor of the peasants, just as certain people in China/Indonesia/the Philipines profit handsomely off the laborers there. The people toiling in the shops didn't get much of the benefit in England either.

Today, of course, that empire is gone,

It is? I have no idea what you're talking about. The West has technical expertise, capital, and of course, access to markets. The Empire is very much alive and well, it's just that the control mechanisms are a little more subtle thant the old days.

but Western countries still profit mightily from the imbalance between labour costs in developed countries and those in less developed countries.

See above. If you're resentful, take some of your paycheck and buy Nike shares. It's again, more efficient than the old days when a few old farts in London had access to all the profits and didn't share at all.

That's a slightly flippant response, so I'll address your main point. If you feel guilty about buying stuff made in sweatshops, don't buy it. I will happily introduce you to a nice tailor who will only oppresses laborers in the United States. If you'd like to benefit the devloping world at the same time, you can go to my tailor in Taipei as well.

I'm sorry if this is not working towards your ideas of social justice. Social justice just doesn't work very well with modern capitalism.

Nike (to take a most odiferous example) has a responsibility to their shareholders to maximize their profit. Period. Failure on the part of Nike's officers to be mindful of this will result in their removal at minimum, and potentially lawsuits against their persons for breach of fiduciary responsbility. If the fact that Nike (or more correctly, Nike's Taiwanese subcontracting company) runs appalling factories starts to eat into their market share, then and only then will there be ANY action on the part of the officers of the corporation to clean up their collective acts.

Since you've been on the tour of the miserable bits of Asia, have you been to any of the nicer ones? Taiwan and Japan used to both be big sources of cheap labor. Today, the younger generation in both countries would sooner die than work on a factory floor. Education and rising expectations means that you can probably get a nice job in an air-conditioned office rather than breaking your back like the old man did.

I don't like sounding like a blithering libertarian. I'm not. Unfortunately, all those poor hicks coming off the train each day are going to be a terrible counterweight to any hope of getting reasonable labor laws enacted. China (to use the example which I am most familiar with), is under intense perceived political pressue to deliver jobs. Forcing improved labor conditions will not create more jobs. (How many jobs would or would not be eliminated if labor conditions improved is subject to debate, but if you're a local party boss, such intellectual fine points may be lost somewhere).

You are willing to pay half again as much for a shirt. Go ahead and do that. I agree with you, and do my best to buy goods that come from somewhere besides the lowest bidder. It's nice to be in the top 20% of our great Republic's socioeconomic ladder and have money to spend on the frivolities of life like nice stuff rather than focusing on the boring crap like keeping the landlord paid and keeping the credit card whacked down somewhere out of the "red line" zone. I'll go talk to the nice lady who works for $8/hour down at the local daycare and see if I can get her on board with this program. Wish me luck!

j.


Reality (none / 0) (#81)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 02:13:20 AM PST
j

We seem to be getting on so well, so now I'm going to spoil it!

>Social justice just doesn't work very well with modern capitalism.

There, that's it! That's the problem. Capitalism *needs* inequality to survive. But the gap between rich and poor is too wide in most countries - the disparities do not reflect the true value of people's effort or talent. I'm not saying we should all be on the same hourly rate, merely that having individuals paid USD$40 M/year while other citizens of the same country are paid USD$15 k/year is obscene.

On a global scale it's even worse. Most of the people alive today will not earn more than USD$15k *in their entire lifetimes* (in today's USDs) unless something happens to narrow the gap.

Now, some people say that's OK, bad luck. I have nothing to say that could influence them, just as they could not possibly convince me that their absurd point of view is valid. But for those of us who do acknowledge global inequity as an important issue, the question of what to do about it can be overwhelming. But buying a shirt at a fair price feels like the right sort of thing to do for a start.

The trickle-down effect seems to be as elusive as the invisible handjob. Change for the better can only come from people acting together, just as it always has.

Nice to have met you, j

Zaijian
Bruce



 
Running AMD... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by The Mad Scientist on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 11:19:36 PM PST
...and proud of it.

Together with Linux, it gives me all the computing power I need, for an affordable price. The uptime of the machine is 24 days now, from the last time I was tinkering with hardware and had to shutdown it. No spontaneous reboots that wouldn't be caused by power blackouts (which, if it will get annoying enough, will be addressed by a UPS unit). The only problems I ever had with it were with smbfs filesystem, and even that only when talking with Windows machines, so I suspect some of the oh-so-usual intentional little incompatiBILLities.

I am just migrating users from one LAN to another, moving their mailboxes and machines, and having all sorts of problems. When I needed to move an user from Linux machine to another Linux machine, it was "tar -czf", then "scp", then "tar -xzf", and voila - it was done. With Windows? You first have to find where the bloody files are. Then you have to copy them away. Then you have to import them. And kiss your hopes goodbye if it is older machine that runs Outlook Express 4 which doesn't do imports. OE5 does imports from various formats but no exports to anything sane. WHAT THE HELL WAS EVER WRONG WITH UNIX MAILBOX FORMAT THAT BILLY "THE SCUM" GATES DECIDED HE HAS TO INVENT SOMETHING NEW???

But it is enough of material for a whole diary entry so I will shut up now and then summarize my experiences when the job will be done...


Dear Mr "The Mad Scientist". (1.00 / 1) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 12:30:28 AM PST
Adequacy.org is not Slashdot.org. Please try to keep your posts on topic. The original article was about the apalling sweat-shop conditions of Asian Micro Devices' manufacturing plants. My heart goes out to the poor Catholic Filipinos. You, however, seem intent on regaling us with the mind-numbing minutiae of your "exploits" with the illegal L.I.N.U.X. operating system. The author mentioned L.I.N.U.X. once in the entire article. This does not give you the right to defend your irresponsible use of a terrorist OS, nor the responsiblity to attack the products of hard working Americans such as Sir Bill Gates.


oh shut the fuck up (2.50 / 2) (#25)
by PotatoError on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 04:28:01 AM PST
do you really think you, the author of this article or the article itself is actually funny?

What was the point of this article? It went to far to be convincing and not far enough to be even slightly funny.

Then you do one of the normal "This is adequacy not slashdot", "Please try to keep your posts on topic", blah blah...."This does not give you the right to defend your irresponsible use of a terrorist OS"....
Like you kind of people ALWAYS post this same style of reply on every frigging article at some point. Its not funny anymore. From now on every one of these messages posted, im going to post "12 foot high dog" afterwards and talk about my pet vegetables. EVERY TIME. See how you like it.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

tell me more about your pet vegetables (2.50 / 2) (#27)
by fzr on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 04:50:17 AM PST
What do you like to do with them?

I'm sure I can make a few suggestions if you get bored of trying to make them run linux.


see (2.50 / 2) (#28)
by PotatoError on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 05:03:39 AM PST
see that was quite funny. Its making a piss-take defence of a piss-take article which isnt funny.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

 
I totally agree !!!.... (2.50 / 2) (#77)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 11:01:05 PM PST
I mean...where's the humor in this article???

HUH???

Where's the satire?, It's just a repost of another article that someone else wrote....Adequacy put a spin on it...and now it's theirs????

What ever....

MadMax


I'm sorry? (2.50 / 2) (#78)
by Robert Reginald Rodriguez on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 01:05:30 AM PST
Which article, and at what site? If there is injustice on the internet, it must be righted without delay!


Injustice (none / 0) (#237)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jul 11th, 2002 at 04:28:27 PM PST
You're the injustice. Don't ever use the internet again!


 
right! (none / 0) (#96)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 8th, 2002 at 10:21:31 AM PST
quacy.org is not Slashdot.org.

who whould have thought.....

Please try to keep your posts on topic. The original article was about the apalling sweat-shop conditions of Asian Micro Devices' manufacturing plants.

Asian? And I thought the 'A' in AMD stood for Advanced.............wait..it does!!!

My heart goes out to the poor Catholic Filipinos.

philipinos you mean.

You, however, seem intent on regaling us with the mind-numbing minutiae of your "exploits" with the illegal L.I.N.U.X. operating system.

is and never will be illegal, and its linux, it doesn't stand for anything, it was based off of the name of the guy who developed it...linus

The author mentioned L.I.N.U.X. once in the entire article. This does not give you the right to defend your irresponsible use of a terrorist OS,

its not a terririst os...out of all the laptops the US has found in afganistan, no linux was found....

nor the responsiblity to attack the products of hard working Americans such as Sir Bill Gates.

he got knighted in america? Thought we did away with that in the bill of rights.....unless he was knigted in england...but that would be VERY unamerican then wouldn't it....



idiot (none / 0) (#98)