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 My Journey Through Linux Hell

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Apr 23, 2002
 Comments:
I recently took the challenge of my friend, Trinexx of www.trinexx.com and installed Linux. The challenge was that if I installed Linux, I'd like it more than Windows XP, boy was he wrong.
Being considered by others a highly computer literate person, I thought installing Linux would be painless and a sinch.

First, I acquired Red Hat Linux 7.1 off of a friend. I was kind of happy to know that I wouldn't have to partition my drive into a Linux and Windows partition thanks to Red Hat's great No Partition Install. Unfortunately, Linux, as antiquated as it is, cannot read off of the modern 21st century NTFS file system. Disappointed, and encouraged by an Open Sores friend, I illegally downloaded and stole PartitionMagic Pro 7.0, not just normal PartitionMagic, but the more expensive Pro version. (I felt so bad afterwards, I went to confession in the good Catholic manor.)

Being a commercial program, PartitionMagic had a GUI and was very easy to use. All I had to do was right click and choose a couple of options to resize my NTFS Partion to 30GB leaving 10GB open for my Linux partition. I restarted, and when I came back into windows, all worked well. I opened PartitionMagic and created a Linux Native partition. I put the Red Hat cd into the computer and restarted. When Red Hat Linux Setup started, it was a very old Windows 3.1 looking GUI. (I was amazed that Red Hat took the time to make a GUI, knowing the usual quality of Open Sores programs) Unfortunately, I had to connect an old ps/2 mouse to my computer because apparently the antique Linux operating system doesn't support cutting edge technology like USB and lasers. I followed the instructions until I got to the screen that said manually choose the partition to install the Linux operating system on. Unfortunately, I had trouble figuring this out because of the very strange way Linux handles storage devices. Instead of using a modern, and easy letter-based interface, Linux uses strange and alien terms such as hda1/ and hda2/. Following the advice of the manual, I mounted hda2 as / which apparently means root. Luckily, hda2 was the Linux partition, but unfortunately, Linux doesn't support 21st century functions like same disk Virtual Memory so I had to again, make a 1 GB Linux SWAP partition from PartitionMagic Pro, which if I haven't added already, I was encouraged to download in the manner of a common thief.

Again, I restarted my computer and ran the Linux set up again this time making it as far as Ready to Copy files. Unfortunately, the unstable and highly undocumented install program, called Anaconda (Largely because it chokes the common reputations of computers and Operating System Install programs) had an "Abnormal Termination" error, whatever that means. I was launched into a strange DOS type text based interface seen only in horror films. I tried several things like typing in WIN and EXIT, but it was to no avail. I had to manually restart my computer by shutting off my computer at the power supply (Most modern 21st century computer makers and the beloved Microsoft warn against this for it causes Hard-Drive damage)

The third and final time I had to run the Linux setup program, it finally installed. It didn't have drivers for my cutting edge Flat-Panel monitor so I had to choose a generalized 1999 driver for generic monitors. Eventually, I got to GRUB configuration which allows two operating systems to boot off of one computer. I configured it so one OS would boot off of hda1 (the C: Drive, mind you) and the auxilary OS would boot off of hda2 (The D: or E: drive on most modern operating systems)

Finally finished with that abomination of an install program, I rebooted my computer and when GRUB loaded up, only Linux was on the option screen. Unfortunately, I ,had to choose Linux and instead of the quick 35 second boot-up time of Windows XP Professional, I was met by a tediously slow boot up not seen since Windows 1.0. It took over 2 1/2 minutes (On a 1.7 Ghz computer with 256 MB of RAM)

Now before, a couple of my hairs were just being singed, but now, I was so far down in hell, I was wishing I weren't born. I thought, wrongly of course, that if I restarted the computer, GRUB would work correctly and Windows XP would be on the GRUB screen but first, I had to find the restart command on the GNOME Equivalent of a start menu. Well, where could it be, it wasn't on the start menu. Again, against the recommendations of every computer manufacturer in the civilized world I had to manually restart. I restarted and GRUB still only had the Linux OS to choose from. I put in the Windows XP Install disk and restarted the computer using the ingenius repair option to start into Windows XP. When I finally did get into Windows XP, it was really messed up. The Virtual Memory (64-bit I may add, and on the same partition) wasn't working, and may hard drive was 99% fragmented, up from 47 before I installed Linux. Now I'm angry, my computer is even more messed up than I can go into detail on.

All-in-All, I lost 17 GBs of data, including 400 MP3s, Countless pieces of Intellectual Property and Artwork made in commercial programs like Paint Shop Pro and Lightwave 3d, 3 GBs of Legally downloaded Commercial Programs and several Word Documents need for school. The moral of this story (Besides backing up your hard drive before installing evil antique operating systems like Linux) is that Linux is a monopoly uses illegal business tactics like offering "free" (It's not actually free, because you have to pay for it in performance, and features)and thwarting existing installations of commercial and legal programs.

       
Tweet

I warned you. (none / 0) (#1)
by Lysidas on Tue Apr 23rd, 2002 at 07:43:48 PM PST
I warned you against using the 7.1 discs, and did you listen? No. USB/Laser mice work fine on the 7.2 installer, which you know firsthand.

Also, you never used GRUB. GRUB, the Grand Unified Bootloader, is new to RedHat 7.2. I would guess you were using LILO.

Linux does take more brainpower to install and use than the droolware known as XP. Whatever floats your boat is fine by me, but I'd rather use an abacus than XP.
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.

Droolware? (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:20:44 AM PST
It runs faster, better APIs (DirectX) and support, runs almost 90% of programs are made for it, better memory handling, any others?


don't strain yourself (none / 0) (#18)
by nathan on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:24:46 AM PST
Coming from g**ks, 'droolware' is quite a compliment.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
Others... (none / 0) (#21)
by The Mad Scientist on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 12:24:43 PM PST
...and random nondebuggable lockups on some computers, mysterious slowdowns curable by reboot, registry (ewww) corruptions, memory leaks, unpatched security holes (and the approach to them), no good scripting language, and the worst of the worst - the users.


Amen. (n/m) (none / 0) (#25)
by Lysidas on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 02:31:58 PM PST

Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.

 
Yeah...Ok (none / 0) (#27)
by MattGlover on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:05:30 PM PST
Well, I ran XP for 1 1/2 months without any errors. As soon as I installed Linux it screwed up my entire computer.


Yep. (none / 0) (#30)
by The Mad Scientist on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:40:05 PM PST
Well, I screwed up a machine couple years back when I attempted to repartition a drive. I was later recovering data from a few disks whose owners attempted to mess with resizing partitions. None of the cases were Linux-related in any way. When it comes to resizing the partitions, I am extremely reluctant to do so.

I run Linux for 7 months on home machine and for 9 months on company machines, almost without problems (the causes were only running out of disk space (when I forgot to check it), hardware problems, and a bug in smbfs which is now corrected and it was mostly my mistake that I ran old kernel). I am attempting to stay away from the desktop, though, as I feel better with the servers.

As long as I will be the head of our IT, there will be no Windows on any mission-critical server.


BAH! (none / 0) (#32)
by MattGlover on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:45:45 PM PST
As long as I will be the head of our IT, there will be no Windows on any mission-critical server. Which is a terrible mistake.


Mistake? (none / 0) (#35)
by The Mad Scientist on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:57:42 PM PST
We will see in next 5 years.

I am betting my future on unixes. When technology is involved, my bets are rarely wrong.


Egomania... (none / 0) (#43)
by Uncanny Vortex on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 07:38:29 AM PST
...is a sad and lonely disease.

Please seek help from a licensed professional.

-- Uncanny Vortex



Egos are very healthy (5.00 / 1) (#52)
by Narcissus on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 12:52:38 PM PST
egotism is a good sign that someone has confidence and high self-esteem




--------------------------------
Ok, who picked the flower???

Somehow, I knew you would say that. [n/t] (none / 0) (#61)
by because it isnt on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 02:04:43 AM PST

adequacy.org -- because it isn't

 
I'm game too (none / 0) (#47)
by Lysidas on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 09:03:08 AM PST
I'd bet on anything that's open-sourced over proprietary crap. Sadly, if a unix is to succeed on the desktop, there may have to be a module that simulates drive lettering. The masses just can't handle change.
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.

Shut up, NAWL. (none / 0) (#50)
by derek3000 on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 10:37:37 AM PST
No one here is buying into your astroturf.


----------------
"Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

Astroturf (none / 0) (#53)
by The Mad Scientist on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 12:58:42 PM PST
There is an unnamed company famous by their astroturf campaigns...

...though for historical record we shouldn't forget the Boeing-orchestrated demonstrations against allowing supersonic commercial jets landing on US airports.


 
Are you new to this site? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by mfk on Tue Apr 23rd, 2002 at 08:11:30 PM PST
It is a well-known fact that Linux sucks ass. The constant infighting, lack of standards (despite zealots whining about not being able to read Microsoft Word files), blatant disregard for Intellectual Property, and the XXX Windows System make up the hellhole that is known as Linux.

Linux is notorious for not supporting the latest hardware; USB support was not finalized until Leenus Torvaltyos' 2.4 kernel was out - and even then, the evil Russian hacker treated it like his personal development tree as evidenced by the Virtual Memory fiasco. At this rate, USB 2.0 support ought to be finalized by the time Serial ATA makes its debut.

The old adage - "you get what you pay for" still holds true in this regard. I paid $300 for my legally licensed, activated copy of Windows XP, and I could not be any happier. Stability, coupled with 100% compatibility with every program, have shown what fine effort Microsoft has put into their latest operating system. Installing hardware is a cinch; if, for any reason, the installation fails, I can check the Event Log (no console here) and view Window's descriptive error message so I can take appropriate action to correct it.



Blah blah whine whine (none / 0) (#58)
by DG on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 04:05:16 PM PST
same old windows is better than linux becuse i know windows and i wish to remain ignorent of linux BS i've heard for the last 5 years.. Zzzzz... move along nothing to be seen here, go away troll
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

 
You Sir... (none / 0) (#3)
by John Wainright on Tue Apr 23rd, 2002 at 08:49:28 PM PST
Are a common thief!
I would like to know why you went to a Catholic home instead of a Church to confess your sins.
Though freely admitting you procured illegally certain programs makes it easier for the authorities to find you.




Manor (none / 0) (#6)
by MattGlover on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:45:57 AM PST
Manor. n. - 1. Home 2. Way
I went to confession in the good Catholic way.


Oops...Bad spelling... (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:22:04 AM PST
I was sick and drunk up on cough syrup yesterday, please disregard bad spelling. I know manner is the right word....


 
One thing that would have helped.. (2.00 / 1) (#4)
by DG on Tue Apr 23rd, 2002 at 08:53:33 PM PST
is if you would have read the documetation.. i know, i know, everyone will whine "but you don't need to read anything for xp!!" for good reason.. but as for the ntfs thing.. well you can't read ntfs in dos or 9x eather, maybe you should have read how to load the modual for ntfs?, linux has a higher learning curve than windows, you have to know how stuff works under the hood, claiming it sucks becuse you don't know anything and you break stuff is a weak whine, you should back up everything if you are going to experiment,

hell i bet you would hear the same from someone trying to install xp for the first time, it's not only linux, by the way default linux doesn't read xp becuse they didn't expect anyone to dual boot xp and redhat, if you read documention it would tell you to defrag defrag defrag.. it's not the oses fault you screw it up
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

If I may politely disagree- (none / 0) (#13)
by JoePain on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 10:57:45 AM PST
I am a computer amature and was able to install Windows XP just fine. I have also installed Lunix, but did not take any chances, as i am afraid of developing open sores. He should have been advised to use a commercially available product, VM Ware (www.vmware.com), to try LUNIX in (free 30 day trial). This way he couldn't possibly have screwed up his operating system, as Microsofts vmware product isolates lunix so it does not come near windows.

I think you Luni pushers purposely did this to punish a microsoft user. Open sores give new meaning to the red scare.


Some points (none / 0) (#36)
by DG on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 06:09:41 PM PST
First: stop saying open sores, it was funny the first time now it's just idiotic

Second: why the hell did you post that vmware is made by microsoft? if you go to the site the company title is VMWARE you insult them by slapping microsoft in that name.

Third:was i talking about you? i was talking about the total newbie, the type of people who doesn't ask others for help when something trashs the system, if you can install linux you have some computer know-how, and i wasn't talking about you, as linux is decendent of unix, it functions better if it owns the whole hard drive, ie no sharing.. isn't it's fault if you don't learn how to install it properly
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

Zealot... (none / 0) (#44)
by JoePain on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 08:41:51 AM PST
You cannot speak about Lunix to newbs of that caliber because they quite simply will not understand. Do you understand what this means? what the fuck are you saying and who the fuck are you addressing?


I could say the same of you (none / 0) (#56)
by DG on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 03:44:04 PM PST
Icould replace "linux" with windows and it still would be true, what the fuck are you talking about? i'm trying to keep it understandable... maybe you need to hear it again..linux/windows/freebsd/macos work better if they have the whole harddrive to themselves.. stuff starts acting funny when you try to dual boot other os with it, hmm i think you are way off, i am not a zealot you must feel like a witch hunt or something so you are calling me names, by the way who the fuck do you think i'm talking to? could it be the idiot who thinks he's funny calling it "open sores"? stop trolling it's not funny and you have nothing worth saying
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

If I may butt into this discussion... (none / 0) (#59)
by Uncanny Vortex on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 04:20:58 PM PST
Mr. DG,

You don't think you're a zealot, but you definitely come off sounding like one -- and an uneducated one at that.

stuff starts acting funny when you try to dual boot

How about using some specific technical terms to describe the problems you've encountered? Stuff, you say? Acting funny? By Jove, how informative!

Dual booting is a time-honoured concept, proven to work in many situations, if set up properly. That includes dual-booting Linux with Win2k, or Win2k with Win98, or any number of configurations.

If it's not working for you, then you probably did something wrong. Perhaps a trip to the newsgroup archives would help.

Really though, it's not worth your time to install a useless OS such as Lunix. I'm betting your main reason for advocating it is because you get to feel like a hip, anti-establishment nerd. In actuality, you may be an inexperienced novice who blindly promotes a subversive OS.

So when was the last time you wrote some code to create or modify any open-farce project? Yeah, that's what I suspected. You haven't learned K&R C just yet; you're still working your way through the primer between puffs on the crack-pipe. Keep at it, Fruity.

-- Uncanny Vortex




Hmm (none / 0) (#60)
by DG on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 04:53:27 PM PST
you are confused, i know how to install linux/unix/windows what ever, i have my mcse and other ms stuff and a+ and such, i didn't know you were that hungry for info on things you seem to not care about, maybe you are just out to annoy others.. that most likely it but insulting me doesn't help anything, grow up and stop posting nonsense, to tell you the truth i don't give a shit what you think.. oh well i'm not mad at all just saddened by calling this a site for grown ups i would have thought i'd see some.. all i see are anal retentive 15 year-olds wanking off to how much they think they know.
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

Suggestion. (none / 0) (#63)
by hauntedattics on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 06:38:55 AM PST
Why don't you use capital letters, proper sentence structure and some whitespace in your posts? People still might not take what you say seriously, but at least they'll be able to decipher what you're trying to say. And then maybe you'll have a seat at the grown-ups' table! Won't that be exciting.




Suggestion for you (none / 0) (#67)
by DG on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 02:51:46 PM PST
Why don't you come up with something other than to nitpick my writing? like say something to do with what i wrote? i get rather tired of some of the people who attack me just becuse of some precieved notion that they can't read what i post. big deal i don't use capitals.. if thats all you have to post, fuck off till you have something worth posting
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

I would... (none / 0) (#68)
by hauntedattics on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 11:06:09 AM PST
respond to the content in your posts, but I have no idea what you're trying to say. I'm also hesitant to spend extra time trying to decipher what you're unwilling (or unable?) to say in clearly written, correctly spelled English. Others on this site don't have any problem with this concept. Why do you?




well (none / 0) (#69)
by DG on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 12:59:53 PM PST
becuse, i have better things to do, it seems to be a last ditch effort by a lot of posters, to attack me, it seems petty to me
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

Well... (none / 0) (#70)
by hauntedattics on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 08:08:20 AM PST
if you have better things to do, then why not do them instead of posting? It's simple courtesy on a written discussion forum to post lucid and concise messages, so if you can't do that, maybe you should think twice about posting anything.



 
The Install messed up my hard drive. (none / 0) (#5)
by MattGlover on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:41:51 AM PST
I did defrag...I did know the basics of Linux before I installed it...I made sure to get all this stuff before I installed the new operating system...but the point is...it messed with stuff it's not even supposed to.


surely not (none / 0) (#9)
by budlite on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 06:15:46 AM PST
it messed with stuff it's not even supposed to

I'm really having a hard time believing that.

I did know the basics of Linux before I installed it

Pull the other one!


 
doesn't sound like it (none / 0) (#37)
by DG on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 06:25:36 PM PST
if you know so much about linux why did you try dos commands? didn't you ever get an account on a linux/unix computer before?, you just make it hard to believe you know anything about computers, when you do things that would normally break a pc, starting in the middle of an install of linux or windows will cause damage to anything, thats why i say read the documention
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

He's trolling, simple as that (none / 0) (#46)
by Lysidas on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 08:54:32 AM PST
Sadly, I gave him an account on my server a few weeks before it died (still in the process of being restored). I showed him the basics of using a shell (you know, simple stuff -- ls, rm, cp, mv, switches [ls -a]). Basically, he had some grasp of what he was doing. Also, did you notice he completely forgot the important command HELP? Doesn't sound very computer-literate to me. If i'm on a strange CLI, the first thing I would do is try to get acquainted with it, instead of throwing a hissy fit when I can't run Windows from BASH.

Just leave him. He can't be converted or changed; he's too far assimilated. Microsoft owns his soul. I've converted a few other friends to Linux, and it's worked well for them. This is a shining example of why Microsoft must be stopped, and soon.
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.

I'm not "Brainwashed" (none / 0) (#64)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 11:16:58 AM PST
I simply think Windows is best at being a desktop OS. Linux is the best server OS, Windows is the best Desktop OS.


what about (none / 0) (#66)
by nathan on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 12:28:40 PM PST
FreeBSD?

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
computer literate? (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 06:09:49 AM PST
I don't understand how you can be called a computer literate!
first of all, and everyone should know this, NTFS is not a very good fs. It requires way to much defragging, actually MS itself recommends that you have at least 20% of the disk free if you want to avoid fragmentation. Anyway neither win 9x nor DOS supports it.
EXT3 is much better, supporting journaling and so on.

I have never tried RH 7.* personally but my USB mouse is supported in Slackware and i suppose it is in RH too, you just didn't know how to make it work.

The disk labelling scheme in unix/linux is much more well thought out and logical than the C: and D: things in windows. And so is the idea of having a partition for swap instead of a file on the same partition. MS recommends you to make your swap file on another partition than the one Windows is installed on.

The boot up time could have been severely reduced if you had reduced the number of starting daemons, which you obviously wasn't smart enough to do, although, at least in earlier versions of the RH installer, is very easy.


All in all i get the impression that you are an idiot who don't know how to work a computer, besides downloading warez and using Photoshop.
Which brings me to a question: where did you get oyur 400 mp3's from? you apparently feel bad about pirating, which btw in this case was complety unnecessary, as there is nice disk splitting tools with RH


You seem to be a Zealot. (none / 0) (#23)
by JoePain on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 01:00:00 PM PST
I know very many computer application users who have no knowledge of nor need to know which file system is "the best". They are considered literate by every definition of the word.

I am going to let you in a secret, it will be tough for you to take, but just brace yourself and try to control your emotions.

The vast majority of computer literate people use windows.

Open Sores: The new red scare?

Joe



Use weighted average... (none / 0) (#34)
by The Mad Scientist on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:55:26 PM PST
...and the matter will be clearer.

What percentage of computer-illiterate people use Windows.

What percentage of computer-literate people use Windows.

Dependence on OS preferences on the degree of computer literacy.

Average degree of computer literacy for each OS's users.

These numbers would tell more than blank statements about "majority".


So what? (none / 0) (#38)
by gzt on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 09:30:10 PM PST
The first two questions would be interesting and relevant. I'd want to know that if I were a souless droid dedicated to wanktastic computer holy wars.

The third is impossible to answer and is misleading. "Dependence" is not the word you want. Perhaps you want to say "correlation". Also, it would be impossible to design a measure of the degree of computer literacy that is not culturally biased.

The average degree of computer literacy of an OS's users is irrelevant and misleading. So what if the average Windows user doesn't know BASIC or HTML?


 
You know... (none / 0) (#42)
by hauntedattics on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 06:02:35 AM PST
If all the computers on the planet suddenly disappeared tomorrow, I would still have a job.

How 'bout you?




Fallback careers (none / 0) (#51)
by The Mad Scientist on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 12:49:32 PM PST
If all the computers on the planet suddenly disappeared tomorrow, I would still have a job.

How 'bout you?


I would have to change my job, though most likely I'd retain the workplace and just get new businesscards.

Whatever. Installing and maintaining power mains. Installing and maintaining security sensor/camera systems. Telephone systems. Electronics design. Repairs of electronic equipment. Design and repairs of mechanical systems (for case electronics would disappear too). Jewelry, or any comparable kind of very-fine mechanics. Or, I could get back to my roots and rejoin chemistry research.

Or just anything that will be necessary at the moment, that will offer a chance to not grow to a mind-numbing routine...


 
What do you do for a living (none / 0) (#54)
by Narcissus on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 01:02:28 PM PST
I would really like to know what you do that doesnt involve computers in a way that if they all disappeared tomorrow that you would still be employed ... seeing as every job i can imagine has been continually and greatly impacted by computers and the internet




--------------------------------
Ok, who picked the flower???

Of course my job would be affected (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by hauntedattics on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 03:42:03 PM PST
if computers disappeared tomorrow. It would take a lot more time communicating with client companies via phone and fax, and typing up presentations on a Smith-Corona. I didn't say my job would be easy, just that it would still exist. The same holds true for any number of other professions out there.

My point is that for the large majority of the population, computers, operating systems, etc. are tools for making communications/ processes/analyses easier and faster. They are the means, not the end.

(By the way, "impact" is a noun, despite what the mainstream media and talking heads might say.)




Take it from a telecoms software engineer... (none / 0) (#62)
by because it isnt on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 02:10:57 AM PST
if computers disappeared tomorrow. It would take a lot more time communicating with client companies via phone and fax.

You wouldn't. First, they'd have to get the crossbar-connect switches out of the museums, and secondly, there are no mechanical implementations of the fax protocols.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

 
Yes I am.... (none / 0) (#31)
by MattGlover on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:40:54 PM PST
<B>first of all, and everyone should know this, NTFS is not a very good fs. It requires way to much defragging, actually MS itself recommends that you have at least 20% of the disk free if you want to avoid fragmentation. Anyway neither win 9x nor DOS supports it.
EXT3 is much better, supporting journaling and so on.</B>

NTFS is faster, faster after a crash (Which is seldom on the 2000 kernel) Well, think about it. I had 17 gigs used up on a 40 gig hard drive. I took away 10 for Linux leaving 13 empty. THINK!!

<B>I have never tried RH 7.* personally but my USB mouse is supported in Slackware and i suppose it is in RH too, you just didn't know how to make it work.</B>

Ok, Microsoft Intellimouse (USB) is not on RH 7.1

<B>The disk labelling scheme in unix/linux is much more well thought out and logical than the C: and D: things in windows. And so is the idea of having a partition for swap instead of a file on the same partition. MS recommends you to make your swap file on another partition than the one Windows is installed on.</B>

How so? It is much easier to remember that C: is the main partition of my hard drive. It is a lot easier to remember letters than hda1-100 on a large network (If Linux supports this). Even if you do run out of numbers on the network on MS servers you can use the computer name as the drive name. It is a lot simpler and a lot more powerful.

<B>The boot up time could have been severely reduced if you had reduced the number of starting daemons, which you obviously wasn't smart enough to do, although, at least in earlier versions of the RH installer, is very easy.</B>

The full install of Windows is approximately 1 gig. (Less on earlier versions, Windows 95 being approximately 400 megs.) If Windows is bloatware, why does it have twice as many features, is smaller, boots faster, and runs quicker? The full install of red hat linux is over 2 gigs. That's 2 gigs!! Nearly 2 times as much with less features, an archaic driver and filing system, limited support.

<B>All in all i get the impression that you are an idiot who don't know how to work a computer, besides downloading warez and using Photoshop.</B>

I don't use Photoshop, too expensive, and I do know how to work a computer. You my friend do not know how to work a computer. You use an archaic operating system, with bad support, terrible coding, and it is slow! No one in their right mind would allow such crap to reside on their hard drive! Anyone who does should be shot in the kneecaps.

<B>where did you get oyur 400 mp3's from?</B>

Ever heard of unsigned artists? A couple of them were from CDs I have and ripped so I could listen to them while leaving my CD Drive vacant.

<B>as there is nice disk splitting tools with RH</B>
That was comical. FDISK and and the other option were both incapable of resizing the partition (1) BECAUSE IT IS NTFS FORMAT!! (2) They would delete everything off the partition anyways, at least according to the warnings.




 
That's odd (none / 0) (#8)
by budlite on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 06:13:34 AM PST
RedHat 7.2 picked up the presence of my USB Intellimouse and allowed me to use it before it even got to the hardware selection stage.

Also, you do realise the RedHat installers include their own partitioning tools?

The long boot times are thanks to Red Hat messing around, shoving in many more boot processes than necessary. Just get rid of a few of them and it'll boot much faster. Still probably not as fast as WinXP, which I'll admit is pretty slick, but usably fast. Also, WinXP is the OS that destroys the boot processes of other operating systems - I installed XP on a machine that already had Linux installed - did the XP installer ask me if I wanted to use its boot loader or not? Of course not. That's why I have a machine on which I can only boot Windows despite having a rather nice Linux setup still sitting there.

Finally, I'll wager that what messed up Windows XP following a reinstall was probably installing it over the top of itself.


Red Hat 7.1 (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:11:35 AM PST
I had 7.1


 
a few things (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 07:08:06 AM PST
Your Windows installation was messed up because you screwed around during the install and restarted in the middle. You didn't need to use PM twice. You could have simply changed the first partition you made (/) to 9.5 and manually created a Linux swap partition.

As for GRUB I haven't really used it. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't GRUB allow you to configure it within, well, GRUB? LILO is easy.
You should always back up before installing any OS. Microsoft even recommends doing so when upgrading from an earlier OS.

All in all you only have yourself to blame. I listed only a few mistakes you made that you should have considered being computer literate (which doesn't mean much). I let you figure out the other things you did wrong that are usually considered common knowledge for people who dual-boot.


 
just wanna mention this (none / 0) (#11)
by detikon on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 07:10:16 AM PST
I configured it so one OS would boot off of hda1 (the C: Drive, mind you) and the auxilary OS would boot off of hda2 (The D: or E: drive on most modern operating systems)

Actually Windows is the only modern OS that uses letters to label drives. Every OS (modern or old) pretty much does it differently. MacOS, Linux/Unix, BeOS, AtheOS, NetWare, etc.




Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

True (none / 0) (#39)
by DG on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:18:48 PM PST
Windows remains the only os with this limited function, which dates back to dos.. you can only have 26 partitions becuse of it.. people might say why would you need more than 26?, who knows but i like idea of knowing i'm not limited in such a old manner.. from this old limition i'd say linux/macos/unix trumps windows on this count
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

And more... (none / 0) (#41)
by The Mad Scientist on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 05:34:23 AM PST
you can only have 26 partitions becuse of it.. people might say why would you need more than 26?,

The history repeats itself. Who could need more than 640 kB of RAM, anyway?

who knows but i like idea of knowing i'm not limited in such a old manner..

Same here. Plus I like the possibility to mount any filesystem to any place in the directory structure. Plus the virtual filesystems (ie, /proc) and the galore of supported real filesystems...

And device inodes, named pipes, and all that el-neato stuff :)


but wait (none / 0) (#49)
by detikon on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 09:32:42 AM PST
you can only have 26 partitions becuse of it.. people might say why would you need more than 26?,

Acutally you can have more than 26. You can also have network drives as well. You can only have 24 drives designated by drive letters. A and B are still resevered for floppy. So in actuallity you are limited to C though Z.

You can however move beyond this. Windows 2000 allows you to "mount" drives. So you can actually have more than 26 "drives" or partitions on a system. However when you "mount" drives you lose the drive letter designation. All mounted drives appear as folders.

If you are using NetWare you can name the drive C: if you want to. Hell if you're in the mood you can name it Fred:. Just remember that the system partition is called SYS.




Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

 
Linux Hell (none / 0) (#12)
by Fon2d2 on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 08:44:06 AM PST
It bothers me to see all the comments saying that MattGlover must not really be computer literate or he didn't fully read documentation. I have been using computers since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. I have taught myself C, C++, and Assembly as well as taking formal courses in those languages. I have read or skimmed consideral amounts of the Indispensable PC Hardware Book as well as many other PC books. I have recently finished a collegiate course in Operating Systems. And I have also gone through the process of the RedHat 7.1 install process. Why not? I am a computing professional after all and I ought to learn this Unix stuff sometime.

All said though, Linux is not easy. The RedHat installation was the 3rd linux installation attempt during the course or my collegiate career and it was the first and only attempt to actually make it all the way. That's not to say that everything was a cinch though. Linux has an extremely, ungodly steep learning curve. I was befuddled by terminology such as /dev/hda1 and technical problems such as the 1024-cylinder limit during my install process as well. I also had trouble with the LILO boot loader. I spent hours simply reading about LILO just to get the configuration files correct. Linux still had other problems during boot with hardware it couldn't configure properly. I had to solve that in my old PC by removing the IDE cable from the ZIP drive. Once everything finally seemed to be in order (after about 2 weeks) I still had the problem of learning a completely foreign environment. And no a background in DOS does not prepare you. You still have to spend hours learning about rpm dependencies, tar gzip source files, file permissions for mounted Windows drives, and other shit like whatever the hell that grep command is people always talk about. It doesn't help that the typical example a book provides looks like it's trying to win the obfuscated C contest. One of the latest things I've learned is Linux doesn't come with a defrager because, supposedly, you'll never need one. Ha, ok, double standard making me use a defrager to resize Windows for the Linux install then.

Now I've never had a problem with Windows data actually getting corrupted but some seriously fucked up shit has happened to my partition table in the past. Thankfully Linux only managed to destroy itself and not touch the hundreds of mp3s on my Windows drive.


I read the documentation (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:16:57 AM PST
I downloaded the documentation files from the Red Hat Linux website. I have also taught myself the rudiments of several programming languages and am quite versed in PHP. I am currently learning C++, so what? The Linux OS is crap, but apparently, since I'm going into networking I'll have to learn it eventually. I'm capable of using bash in a telnet system, I just never want Linux on any of my computers again.


 
And that my friends, is the difference. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by dmg on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:31:49 AM PST
Windows XP: Where do you want to go today ?

Linux: some seriously fucked up shit has happened to my partition table

thank you

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

No no no--- (none / 0) (#22)
by derek3000 on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 12:49:50 PM PST
Thank you.


----------------
"Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

 
and at the end of the day... (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 11:33:21 AM PST
did you mp3s sound any better under Lunix than they did under Windows?

(That, my Lenixist friends, is why people are staying away from Lunix in droves -- there isnt a compelling reason to uninstall Windows even if Linux worked 1/10th as well as its hyperbolic advocates pretend. Not only is Windows "good enough", it's better.)

---
Shut up, NAWL.


You don't need to remove Windows to use Linux (nt) (none / 0) (#26)
by budlite on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 02:33:49 PM PST



Matt Glover begs to differ. (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:37:56 PM PST
He even wrote a diary about his experiences.


Maybe an Anomaly... (none / 0) (#33)
by MattGlover on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:53:02 PM PST
Now this may have been an anomaly, but I'm pretty sure it was Linux's fault. The only other time I did use Linux was on my old computer, but I deleted it because it lacked support for my modem. The point of this diary was that Linux just isn't ready for the Desktop world.


The worst part Matt is that you were given bad - (none / 0) (#45)
by JoePain on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 08:50:31 AM PST
advice. These people SAY all this shit, but they learned exactly the way you did, buy screwing their shit up and having to fix it. They probably didn't do it in quite the same way, but they did. Like I said in a previous post (see above) install Linux in a VMWARE machine (virtual workstation) and if you want to keep it worry about installing it later.


Well (none / 0) (#57)
by DG on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 03:58:02 PM PST
i did do stupid things installing linux .. but i never tried to install it from the middle, but then again i started with linux back in 96, so there where no pretty X GUI installers, well with rh they had a pretty ncurses one.. i have trashed my hdd though, but i was out to learn and read how to do stuff, some people do give bad advice.. like telling anyone "oh redhat is easier than installing windows for anyone who never has installed anything" RTFM rings true in these cases, if you don't read the instructions on building anything do you think you will pick it up as you go along, sure linux has a learning curve but, in the end you learn a ton about it, just from docs
2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

 
you're a goon ... (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 04:42:35 AM PST
you can't be a 'computer professional' that can't live without a GUI.

windows is the scourge of the IT industry and virtually everything that needs 24/7 uptime or any kind of reliability uses linux or unix.


i realise this site generally 'takes the piss' but you should be ashamed ....



 
eh (none / 0) (#24)
by anti filidor on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 01:42:42 PM PST
I've never had a problem with a Linux install. It seems like a piece of cake to me, though maybe I'm just lucky.

However, the OS itself is garbage. Every time I install it, I'm reminded why I stop using it after a week. It just wasn't designed to be a desktop OS, and the desktop tools are crude and entirely inadequate.

I have nothing against the idea of open source, but so far its efforts have not yielded a useful desktop operating system. Maybe instead of trying to dress up a server as a desktop, the open source dudes should write something for the desktop from scratch. That might be a useful product.


Amen! (none / 0) (#28)
by MattGlover on Wed Apr 24th, 2002 at 03:08:37 PM PST
Good Idea....I think that would be great...Most open sourcers are too attached to their terrible Linux operating systems. Red Hat Linux CEO has stated repeatedly to ZDNet and CNN that Linux will never be a threat to Windows, they are made for 2 different things.


actually (none / 0) (#48)
by detikon on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 09:19:01 AM PST
Allow me to clarify that. Red Hat's CEO stated that it was highly unlikely that Linux based desktop OSes would be a threat to the Windows DESKTOP market share.

I will agree that most linux distros are a long way from being user friendly. When people try to use Linux on their desktop the generally go for Red Hat or Mandrake. Big mistake. Desktop/LX from Lycoris (formerly Remdond Linux) is much more impressive.

If you want an open source desktop OS designed from the ground up then I suggest taking a look at AtheOS. It's not meant to be a server OS but it can be modified to be one (kinda like BeOS).




Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

 
oh no!!!! (none / 0) (#65)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 12:26:07 PM PST
All-in-All, I lost 17 GBs of data, including 400 MP3s,...

Someone alert elenchos! He's using the hacker tool MP3! AH HAHAHAHAHA!


 

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