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 a new threat

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Mar 21, 2002
 Comments:
Canada is discovering the hacker menace within its borders! [ link ]
diaries

More diaries by nathan
Bartok violin concerto
religion has failed us.
addition to previous diary (sorry)
Why girls are better than boys
tangential point off h.a.'s recent diary
why boys and girls are different
new job!
objectivist club
Another Friday night
some light reading
the opposite sex
hey, alprazolam,
jerkcity
g**k math is not hard.
liberalism
why?
hedonism
should women?
wiccan woes
is Christianity theistically monistic?
complaint
give me advice.
Canada rules!
Burma Shave!
do some atheists hate religion?


       
Tweet

Gee.. (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 01:39:12 PM PST
I had no idea that the mounties were such idiots.


 
Hey! (none / 0) (#2)
by jvance on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 02:02:33 PM PST
They're called "crackers," not "hackers." Get it right!
--
Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

Mmm. (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by because it isnt on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 02:52:46 AM PST
They're called "crackers," not "hackers." Get it right!

Mmm. Dark rye crackers, butter and some crumbly mature Scottish cheddar.

Sorry, did I say that out loud?
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

mmmmmm (none / 0) (#22)
by William Sargis on Sat Mar 23rd, 2002 at 01:52:12 AM PST
I was visiting my mother one time and she had bought these corn bread crackers. Mmmmm corn bread.





I cut my hands up in the dark and just sat there and bled, while the whole world fell apart inside of my head.

 
and? (none / 0) (#3)
by PotatoError on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 02:37:35 PM PST
If Kids shut down your network thats YOUR fault...afterall shouldnt a Network Administrator with a PHD know more about network security than a 15 year old kid?
Often hackers make the best network admins.

These kids arent hackers anyway (or crackers) - the term "script kiddie" was invented for a purpose. And DoS attacks are easy and lame.

And how oh how are the Canadian police going to stop non-canadians attacking canadian sites? Thats just whats going to happen if they keep drawing attention to themselves.

But anyway, who cares? Its pointless to talk about it..and very boring too.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

Confirming. (none / 0) (#6)
by The Mad Scientist on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 05:07:42 PM PST
If Kids shut down your network thats YOUR fault...afterall shouldnt a Network Administrator with a PHD know more about network security than a 15 year old kid?

Yeah. Though some 15-year old kids are damn smart but they are rare enough to not be considered a serious threat.

Often hackers make the best network admins.

Definitely!

I am just hiring one as my personal assistant. My networks grew too big to be manageable in one person.

I also contracted one to do a tiger-team attack to my servers. If I'd ask a "legitimate" consultant company, I'd have to shelve out 10,000s of USD. This way it cost me just some counterservices and is just as good. I knew why I am keeping my underground connections.


 
Hax0r on, d00d! (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 08:51:20 PM PST
If Kids shut down your network thats YOUR fault

Yeah, well don't cry when some cracker hax0rs your house


 
heh (none / 0) (#4)
by PotatoError on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 02:46:25 PM PST
I was just reading that Canadian report into hackers and look:

"The advanced exploration of computer systems is commonly referred to as hacking."

There. Hacking isnt necesarily criminal. Hackers arent necessarily criminals.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

bleh (none / 0) (#7)
by elenchos on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 07:50:36 PM PST
Since when does some obscure report written by some Dudley Do Right in what is perhaps the most obscure nation on earth have any bearing on anything? Since when do we look to Canada to tell us what words mean?

And even if the world had even an iota of respect for Canadism or anything Canadian, the report also says that any unathorized use of a computer is illegal. Who authorized your "advanced exploration" of their computers? Do all the "advanced exploration" you want on your own boxes, but do it on mine and go to jail, sweet pea.


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


read the article, elenchos (none / 0) (#9)
by nathan on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 09:04:39 PM PST
PotatoPancakes is just quoting out of context, as usual.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

which part of it dont you understand? (none / 0) (#11)
by PotatoError on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 09:27:13 AM PST
Quote:

"Hackers who access a computer system without authorization are committing a Criminal Code offence: section 342.1, Unauthorized Use of Computer."
Hackers who hack their own computers arent criminals.

"The advanced exploration of computer systems is commonly referred to as hacking. The hacker subculture is a diverse subculture. The philosophies, motivations and expertise of individuals vary considerably as they do in most cultures. For example, some hackers are driven by the curiosity to explore and to learn about computer systems; they would not intentionally damage a system."

Which part of that are you taking out of context?

"The majority of hackers are not motivated by criminal intent. Many hackers believe that as long as they do not commit theft, vandalism or breach any confidentiality that their actions are ethically acceptable"

"Hackers who access a computer system without authorization are committing a criminal offence."
But you dont have to do this to be a hacker.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

It's unfortunate (none / 0) (#15)
by William Sargis on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 03:29:01 PM PST
Why does everyone use the term hacker when they refer to criminals? Why not use the terms hacker, cracker, skriptkiddies, or dumbass playing around?

Simple. For many years people have believed that in order to "crack" you must have the necessary skills and have a good working knowledge of computer system. In other words a cracker must use his/he skills as a hacker for malicious intent. However, over time it has become socially acceptable, by persons who don't know better, to use the terms synonymously.

Unfortunately, computer have become just another home appliance. Not trying to bash Microsoft, but this is Bill Gates dream. He wanted computers to be in every home and almost be like just another home appliance that we use everyday. However, this leave you with a lot of people that really don't know a damn thing. If enough people were to use the term "squiggly bops" for hackers with malicious intent these people would start using it because they are dumb and don't know any better. They will often try to convince you they actually hold some degree of knowledge about the subject but simply discussing the subject will show otherwise.

Take this pesron for example. He believes that he is a computer scientist. However, what constitues a computer scientist exist only in his mind. However, for someone that does not believe in re-defintion he eventually slips up..

"Did you not know that I am a computer scientist"
Oh here we go.
" To me, Science means the open-minded pursuit of new knowledge.
Really now
"changes nothing. It is a re-definition"
So it's your defintion so that you can make false claims?
"As a practicing Computer Scientist"
praticing to be a real one or practicing gaining knowledge?
"Anyone who hasn't heard of me would not be doing Computer Science work anyway and I would never be interested in working with them."
In our drreams we are all someone special
But really. I am a Computer Scientist.
Yet you have never proven it nor can you
Oh, and you should realize that I have never attempted to convince any Adequacy outsider (that's what you are) that I am a "real" computer scientist.
You seem to be trying to convince everyone. More now than before.




I cut my hands up in the dark and just sat there and bled, while the whole world fell apart inside of my head.

Someone comes here asking for help with... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by elenchos on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 04:35:33 PM PST
...his computer, I'm glad to help. I'm a nice guy that way; everyone knows that. Look at all those I've supported with my free editorial services.

But that doesn't mean I suddenly want to spend my time trying to convince 13 year old hups (to use your hacker lingo) of my credentials. I merely state who I am, and you can take it or leave it. Have I ever posted my degree or other credentials? No. Why? It would serve no purpose other than to indulge some kid who is "out of the loop" of Computer Science circles.

I have to say, you seem to have spend a substantial amount of time studying my comments and collecting quotes from them. This is not healthy. Have you thought about your mental health? Have you thought about the long-term effects of this type of obsession?

And getting to root causes, have you actually faced up to why you place somone like me into such an important role in your life? I have become this "authority figure" for you to rebel against, haven't I? Let's think about what is missing from your life that you would have this need to put a stranger into that kind of role.

Yes, it is the Father role, isn't it? It's okay, we can talk about this. Answer me.


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


I beg to differ (none / 0) (#17)
by William Sargis on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 07:08:38 PM PST
Someone comes here asking for help with his computer, I'm glad to help. I'm a nice guy that way; everyone knows that.

Rather amusing when your belief is that people shouldn't really "fix" their own computer. Rather they should contact a tech support representative or take it to the shop and pay over priced service charges to fix even the simplest problems. I have yet to read any story or diary entry in which you offer any sort of technical expertise. Instead it's the same old "hacker tool"/Linux arguments time and time again. Perhaps you believe that simply posting that they should seek help from search engines is supportive of your claims?

Look at all those I've supported with my free editorial services.

And who have you helped? In what regards? "Stay away from Lunix and hacker tools! Read my factually inaccurate articles about stuff I clearly don't understand to find out why."

But that doesn't mean I suddenly want to spend my time trying to convince 13 year old hups (to use your hacker lingo) of my credentials.

You seem to enjoy randomly making up terms and attributing them to hackers don't you? It's not necessary for anyone to read through your credentials. The simple fact that you fail to answer even the simplest questions rather than diverting to "stupid communist lunix hacker" posts is enough for anyone to notice you really haven't got a clue. My favorites are the diary entries and stories regarding everyday use of tools by even some of the most brainless idiot computer user and the response you seem to pull out of your ass. "I have no idea what you're talking about so please do not describe hacker HOWTOs."

It would serve no purpose other than to indulge some kid who is "out of the loop" of Computer Science circles.

And "loop" would that be? Are you referring to the kids at your high school who think you "really cool" because you stumbled upon one of you teachers or another students password?

I have to say, you seem to have spend a substantial amount of time studying my comments and collecting quotes from them. This is not healthy. Have you thought about your mental health? Have you thought about the long-term effects of this type of obsession?

Actually it didn't take long at all. Simply going to SEARCH and typing "computer scien" to get all comments with the words "science" and "scientist" then simply looking for your user name. Surprisingly enough there weren't that many in which you used similar words. One of the posts came while I was researching posts regarding the defintions of hacker and cracker and how many argumental post there were in regards to the subject. All in all it took less the 5 minutes. Tabbed browsing simplified the process even more. I could do both seaches at the same time. I have to tell you, I really like the feature in Opera and Mozilla on the Windows machine I am currently using.

And getting to root causes, have you actually faced up to why you place somone like me into such an important role in your life? I have become this "authority figure" for you to rebel against, haven't I? Let's think about what is missing from your life that you would have this need to put a stranger into that kind of role.

Nope. In the time I have visited this site (before registering) I have that of all the editors whop claim to know much about computers you, osm and Yoshi make me laugh the most. You guys are friggin' funny. Hell, even iat seems to present a half way decent argument from time to time and be able to support the argument. However, he seems to lack this ability in his article and diaries but his posts are what's actually worth reading.

Yes, it is the Father role, isn't it? It's okay, we can talk about this. Answer me.

Oh how enjoy this portion of your posts. Tell me, why do you include resort to it when it seems that you are at a loss? Perhaps you simply wish to know that possibly there is someone out there with the same type of relationship as you and your father. It reminds me so much of that cocaine addict head shrinker Freud. He always wanted to know about a patients mother. Could it be simply that he wanted to know that he wasn't the only one who dreamed of fucking his mommy? Why so infatuated with father figures?




I cut my hands up in the dark and just sat there and bled, while the whole world fell apart inside of my head.

Oh, dear not-God. (none / 0) (#19)
by RobotSlave on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 08:36:47 PM PST
Would you please, please, please stop it with the line-by line rebuttal, koochee NAWL? It's rude. It is the written equivalent of interrupting someone who is speaking. It betrays a lack of original thought, and is entirely reactionary. It often goes beyond the "fair use" provision of copyright law.

In short, line-by-line rebuttal makes you look naïve, thickheaded, disrespectful, and ultimately uninteresting.

It's pretty clear at this point that what you really need to do is talk about your father, but you'll progress much faster if you just let your own words flow, rather than cling to, repeat, and fuss over those sacred/hated snippets of Mr. elenchos's comments. You'll never learn to be yourself if you insist on being intertwined with him like that.


© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

wow!!! (none / 0) (#21)
by William Sargis on Sat Mar 23rd, 2002 at 12:46:41 AM PST
Would you please, please, please stop it with the line-by line rebuttal, koochee NAWL?

I find it funny that whenever some make point-to-point rebuttals at least one persopn always screams NAWL!

I am: NAWL
koochee
The Mad Scientist
becuase it isn't
osm
theantix
Yoshi
Jonothan
elenchos
iat
and half of the Anonymous users at any one time.

I am either "super computer man" or you are simply someone that needs to go away.




I cut my hands up in the dark and just sat there and bled, while the whole world fell apart inside of my head.

someone that needs to go away (none / 0) (#25)
by PotatoError on Mon Mar 25th, 2002 at 02:54:35 PM PST
HAHA oh that makes a great handle - im having that one :P ta
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

 
not likely (none / 0) (#12)
by PotatoError on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 09:30:59 AM PST
"Do all the "advanced exploration" you want on your own boxes, but do it on mine and go to jail, sweet pea."
If someone accesses your computer but doesnt delete or modify any of your files then the law doesnt generally give a shit. What you going to do? Ring up the police and tell them that someone unauthorised accessed your computer but didnt do any damage? 1) if you didnt get the intruders IP address they can do nothing anyway and 2) The police have better things to waste their time on.


<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

Depends what jurisdiction (none / 0) (#23)
by dmg on Sat Mar 23rd, 2002 at 05:33:49 AM PST
But, in a nutshell, yes we will call the police.

Potato Error, assuming you are from the UK (as is indicated from our logs), I would invoke the Computer Misuse Act (1980) specifically section 1(1):

1.--(1) A person is guilty of an offence if--
  • (a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;
  • (b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and
  • (c) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.

    I could possibly see there are some Federal laws that you might have broken and if you violated section 2 of the act we could have you extradited, but it will be easier to get you in your own country.

    As you can see, your understanding of the laws pertaining to computer hacking are sorely lacking. Adequacy.org retains experts in computer law for dealing with these kinds of infractions. Rest assured, you will not get away with any kind of intrusion to adequacy.org without recieving a hefty fine, and possibly serving some time in the big house.

    Don't believe me ? Ask Dmitri Sklyarov or Kevin Mitnick. Adequacy.org does not tolerate hackers, and we will take you down.

    time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
    -- MC Hawking

  • Only an idiot... (none / 0) (#24)
    by The Mad Scientist on Sat Mar 23rd, 2002 at 08:51:03 AM PST
    ...attempts to do the attack from his own machine. Usually the attack is led through one (or often more) machine, preferably in several different countries. Good luck tracing back through the logs.

    Smaller "offenses" like scanning or fingerprinting the target don't count. When I have to deal with a subject, before giving them my data I want to be reasonably sure they will be cared about well, that there aren't at least gaping holes in the subject's systems. So I have the bloody right to look around. You would give your money to a bank that has missing locks and missing alarms? Or you would look for the alarm sensors at the moment you enter the main gate, despite of that such observation could mark you as a "bank robber"?

    I'll end now; someone from some Romanian dialup is attempting to guess my root password on my perimeter machine. I'm going to have some fun with that IP... :)

    If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. But if you live by the olive branch, you may still die by the sword.


     
    hehe just what could you "get me for"? (none / 0) (#26)
    by PotatoError on Mon Mar 25th, 2002 at 03:03:58 PM PST
    Everyone can read and quote from the computer misuse act or the data protection act.

    I dont see what your point is? Which part of the act are you accusing me of breaking?

    I guess it would be easier if I lived in a country without computer laws. Then you'd be screwed right?

    "Rest assured, you will not get away with any kind of intrusion to adequacy.org"
    So posting is now classed as unauthorised access? Urghhhh.

    God damn it - Sklyarov was released without penalty because the US couldnt do anything against him. Also note that there were no conditions forced on him either.

    <<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

     
    Think about that one (none / 0) (#13)
    by William Sargis on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 02:14:32 PM PST
    Do all the "advanced exploration" you want on your own boxes, but do it on mine and go to jail, sweet pea.
    Wait, how can I do "all the advanced eploration" I want on my computer if things like the command prompt are supposedly illegal? Let us know when you are a real computer scientist or at least someone with a real education on the subject and don't contradict yourself all the time.




    I cut my hands up in the dark and just sat there and bled, while the whole world fell apart inside of my head.

    You are 100% correct. (none / 0) (#14)
    by elenchos on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 02:36:43 PM PST
    It is absolutely true that there can be no harmless hacking, because hacking cannot peacefully coexist with society at large. A hacker who claims he is "only hacking my own box" is like an alcoholic who "only drinks socially". The fact is that even the smallest amount of hacking becomes a gateway to hacking on the grandest and most evil scale.

    First you "poke around" your machine. Then you "tweak" a few things. Then a few more. Then you just "have a look" at someone else's machine -- not to change anything, to be sure. Just looking. At first. And not at anything private, you tell yourself. At first. But then?

    Then you look a little more. You "poke around" a little more, and a little more, and then? Then you're committing 3 felonies before breakfast, and find yourself with a life sentence before you're 25. Once you start, there is no stopping.

    Hacking. It's a one-way road to hell.


    I do, I do, I do
    --Bikini Kill


    And what? (none / 0) (#18)
    by The Mad Scientist on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 08:06:34 PM PST
    It is absolutely true that there can be no harmless hacking, because hacking cannot peacefully coexist with society at large.

    Tough luck.

    A hacker who claims he is "only hacking my own box" is like an alcoholic who "only drinks socially".

    It tastes good. It feels good. And if you aren't too reckless it doesn't even cause hangovers.

    The fact is that even the smallest amount of hacking becomes a gateway to hacking on the grandest and most evil scale.

    If you are overscared clueless plebs, stay under your couch and fear. Your fault you don't understand.

    First you "poke around" your machine. Then you "tweak" a few things. Then a few more. Then you just "have a look" at someone else's machine -- not to change anything, to be sure. Just looking. At first. And not at anything private, you tell yourself. At first. But then?

    Then you become a high-paid consultant. People hate you and are dependent on you. They mistreat you and they misunderstand you. And your revenge is a nicely hefty invoice for them...


    Hold up (none / 0) (#20)
    by William Sargis on Fri Mar 22nd, 2002 at 08:55:09 PM PST
    If you are overscared clueless plebs, stay under your couch and fear. Your fault you don't understand.

    BOO!

    First you "poke around" your machine. Then you "tweak" a few things. Then a few more. Then you just "have a look" at someone else's machine -- not to change anything, to be sure. Just looking. At first. And not at anything private, you tell yourself. At first. But then?
    elenchos:
    Someone comes here asking for help with his computer, I'm glad to help. I'm a nice guy that way; everyone knows that.
    Oh my gosh elenchos is a hacker (adequacy.org definition)! I mean sure you could claim that you are a professional. However, you have never offer any comment or a single shred of knowledge that would lead someone to believe you actually know squat. I mean weren't you the one that claimed if you or your colleagues ever touched hardware you'd probably blow yourselves up or something like that? So what advice have you given lately?




    I cut my hands up in the dark and just sat there and bled, while the whole world fell apart inside of my head.

     
    ZzzzzZzzzz (none / 0) (#5)
    by DG on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 03:20:27 PM PST
    sorry this just bores me, is all you can come up with is a link to bash "hackers"? try again soon, but come back with more substance next time, who cares if they "hack" and it doesn't sound like hacking, sounds more like DoSing which is weak anyway
    2002, DG. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

     

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