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 Why Supporting Israel Helps Everyone

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Mar 12, 2002
 Comments:
America saw a widespread resurgence of national pride and confidence in our government in the days following the terrorist attacks of September 11th. As time passed, though, the memories of the 3,000 Americans killed in the attack faded, and liberals again commenced their ever-present criticism of the American government and its foreign policies. One of the most frequent targets of their rabid attacks was our support for the nation of Israel.
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Implying everything from a Zionist conspiracy to a Big Oil conspiracy, such otherwise intelligent people as Noam Chomsky claimed that America was oppressing Israel's Palestinian neighbors and was responsible for its own problems on 9/11. Obviously that argument is hogwash; there are many legitimate reasons why America supports Israel:
  • Israel is our greatest ally in the War on Terror. Israel knows how handle terrorists and is not afraid to use force to do so. We can learn a lot from its handling of the situation in the West Bank. Israel has made it painfully obvious to would-be terrorists that every Israeli life taken by a terrorist will result in 3-4 lost Palestinian lives, and countless less-than-lethal measures in the occupied territories. Mass roundups and detentions, torturing suspects, and destruction of random settlements and homes are only the beginning. Israel will not bow to terrorists' demands, nor will they bother with such liberal nonsense as "due process," suspects' rights, or allowing terrorists to hire attorneys to try to beat the rap. Terrorists, by the very virtue of their horrific acts, are not entitled to any of the same protections afforded to citizens suspected of lesser offenses.
  • Israel is the only democracy in the region. Having Israel present in the middle of so many monarchies and theocracies helps mitigate the extremism that would normally engulf the entire region. Israel shares the values that made our country great: they believe in one vote for one citizen, majority rule, and separation of powers.
  • Israel is run by Jews. Similar to the vast majority of Western countries, Israel is almost entirely controlled by members of the tribe. This provides both common ground and consistency throughout the world, and ensures that the societal goals that we feel are important are also promoted in the Middle East. We have chosen to allow the Jews to control every major industry and institution in America, so it only makes sense that we should trust them to run things the same way on the other side of the world.
  • Israel provides a staging ground for attacks on Terror. With its proximity to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Pakistan, Israel provides an ideal location in which to store spare nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons for future use on hostile Arab states that hate America's freedoms and values. Although we do have military bases in Saudi Arabia and other nearby countries, these states are unstable as they teem with the same Islamic militants whose destruction we seek.
  • Israelis hate Islam. Islam is the world's foremost destabilizing factor. Islam has been responsible for countless wars and conflicts throughout history, and today its zealots threaten the very existence of the West. Ariel Sharon has no tolerance whatsoever for these cretins, and will do everything in his power to eradicate this evil cult.
  • Israel is a loyal friend. Israel has never waged war against the U.S.A. or spied on us. Israel has the utmost respect for our interests, and contributes heavily to our economy; in fact, Israel spends billions of dollars every year on weapons that are used to annihilate our enemies, the Palestinians, in the region. How many of our other allies do that for us? Every other nation in the U.N. takes our money and our troops to fight their harebrained "peacekeeping missions," and Israel is the only country that gives anything at all back to us. At the minimum, we owe them our allegiance and support.
Though anti-Semites like Noam Chomsky may oppose our support of Israel, they should keep in mind the fact that the only way we are going to win the War on Terror is to align ourselves with nations with similar interests. And while the Europeans may talk the talk, we know from past experience that they will quickly forget the War on Terror in favor of their silly crusades against GMOs or capital punishment. And in the end, only Israel is prepared and willing to join us in our mission to make the world a safer place.


I'd say I'm ambivalent at best... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by Mint Waltman on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 09:13:12 AM PST
concerning our support for Israel. Ultimately it doesn't matter much exactly who occupies the Holy Land, so long as someone is there to keep it warm until we Christians are able to muster a military capable of reclaiming Jerusalem.


We have the military, we need the will (none / 0) (#9)
by typical geek on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 09:54:17 AM PST
Just a few enhanced radiation weapons would be enough to clear out Jerusalem, and perhaps clear out all those darn border areas. Then we can send in the Disney shock troops to Americanize the Holy Land.


gcc is to software freedom as guns are to personal freedom.

Disney, no... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by Mint Waltman on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 10:12:05 AM PST
Our goals are to Christianize Jerusalem, not Americanize. Modern day America is held so tightly in the grip of Satanists, perverts and multiculturalists that I would be recreant were I to allow what today passes for 'American values' to infect the Holy Land.

Radiation weapons render the target uninhabital, no? If you are an athiest implying that the world would be better off if no one occupied the Holy Land, I suggest you take your God-hating views elsewhere.


Why not Disney? (none / 0) (#49)
by The Mad Scientist on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 05:48:10 AM PST
Radiation weapons render the target uninhabital, no?

Contamination bombs yes; they are designed to produce as much of "dirt" as possible.

Enhanced radiation bombs - so called neutron bombs - not much; they are designed to produce a small blast and a very strong flash of fast neutrons. These are known to be very destructive against living tissues, while not affecting buildings and infrastructure much - they typically cause some secondary radiation, but it's mostly short-living isotopes. Neutron bombs were designed to remove live forces from the area while keeping it usable for the aggressor.

A missile flies in from behind the skyline. When it is above the center of the city, it turns to a small sun. The blast wave breaks some roofs and some windows, otherwise doesn't cause much of damage. In few minutes, everyone in the area starts displaying symptoms of intense radiation poisoning and dies in pain in a horizon of minutes to days. Meanwhile, the plants within the reach start yellowing and drying. Conventional radiation shelters will not be of much help; lead and concrete are good shields against gamma radiation, but for protection against neutrons you need a lot of ie. water.

Everything alive dies. All inorganic structures stay in place... Don't you just love the military technology?

If you are an athiest implying that the world would be better off if no one occupied the Holy Land, I suggest you take your God-hating views elsewhere.

Well... I am an agnostic who thinks that if the children are fighting for a toy, taking away the toy is a good approach. So why not? A radiation contamination bomb could be a good way to calm down the area for couple thousands years.


Smart bombs (none / 0) (#52)
by because it isnt on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 07:01:19 AM PST
Everything alive dies. All inorganic structures stay in place... Don't you just love the military technology?

They've got better stuff than that. Israel has bombs that only kill Arabs, you know.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

 
You Christians (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 10:15:14 AM PST
You people continue to kill each other for some unimportant city. Since God does not exist or does not care, there is a very easy way to solve the issue of the holy land...drop a nuclear weapon on Jerusalem. If you kiddies cannot share the toy we parents will just have to take it away from you.

--Gandalf the White


Hmm. (none / 0) (#15)
by hauntedattics on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 10:38:13 AM PST
You're awfully self-righteous and sure of yourself, dear, for someone whose 'parent' was a fervent Catholic.



 
Re: (none / 0) (#25)
by tkatchev on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 12:04:59 PM PST
Tolkien was a fanatical, die-hard Catholic.

It seems you are too dumb to even understand what you are reading. Props to the American diseducation system.


--
Peace and much love...




 
I agree with nukes but (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 12:20:48 AM PST
we may as well squash all religions with one strike. Simultaneously nuke Rome, Mecca, Jerusalem, Salt Lake City, Lhasa, wherever it is Hindus hang out and all other so-called holy cities. The inhabitants and landowners should be compensated and relocated first of course. This should solve the problem once and for all because if there is a God then divine intervention will surely prevent it.


Scientology Hive (none / 0) (#56)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 12:35:08 PM PST
Don't forget about Clearwater, Florida. That's where all the Scientologists are.


 
Criteria for using of nukes - a proposal (none / 0) (#72)
by The Mad Scientist on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 11:19:48 AM PST
Simultaneously nuke Rome, Mecca, Jerusalem, Salt Lake City, Lhasa, wherever it is Hindus hang out and all other so-called holy cities.

I'd suggest some criteria for "deconflicting" of holy lands.

First, it has to be a holy place for at least two significantly different major religions.

Second, there has to be prolonged (100 years or more) atmosphere of violence between the religions in question.

Third, there have to be often outbursts of violence in the area, caused by members of Religion1 dwelling on the area where members of Religion2 don't want them, and vice versa.

Proposed method is to use a radiation contamination bomb, ie. dispersing radioactive cobalt over the place. Denying both rivaling sides to use the area, so taking away major cause of their quarrels.

The side effect, which I am sure we would cope with easily, is that TV news would become a bit more boring.


Boooooo! (none / 0) (#73)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 12:38:36 PM PST
I'd suggest some criteria for "deconflicting" of holy lands.

That takes all the FUN out of the exercise!


 
UK/Ireland (none / 0) (#75)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 01:08:25 PM PST
So does the Protestant/Catholic tiff qualify? If so, what do you nuke? London? Ireland? All of the above and most of Europe to boot?

What about the US? We've had several churches, mosques and temples bombed. We've have witch burning going back hundreds of years. What about Christians beating gays to death? People have lynched blacks from way back to as recently as the last couple of years with a dragging death recently in good ol' Texas. Racism has been indoctrinated into their religious creeds.

Fuck it. Nuke all humans off the face of the earth!


Doesn't qualify. (none / 0) (#77)
by The Mad Scientist on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 05:23:29 PM PST
So does the Protestant/Catholic tiff qualify? If so, what do you nuke? London? Ireland? All of the above and most of Europe to boot?

No. The religious differences of these two are next to zero and serve only as an excuse to dislike each other. Area denial would cause here only shifting of the conflict to another place.

Fuck it. Nuke all humans off the face of the earth!

Would surely make the planet a bit more peaceful place...


 
ooh! ooh! (none / 0) (#76)
by nathan on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 01:56:50 PM PST
Will you seek ISO certification for your new standards?

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Hmmmm....? (none / 0) (#78)
by The Mad Scientist on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 05:26:49 PM PST
Will you seek ISO certification for your new standards?

Not myself. The paperwork is too much of hassle and no fun. Let's leave it to the "paper tigers" from other departments.

But it's interesting idea.


 
Martydom (none / 0) (#71)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 10:25:14 AM PST
Well, that sounds like a good plan, but you know how the faithful react when someone is persecuted for their nonsensical beliefs. All of them, even those way out on the fringe that never really cared much before, go apeshit. Do you really want to create a doubly holy holy land. AKA "Disney's The Land that was Holy but is Now a Hole?" Or, "The Land That is as Close as You Can Get to the Holy Land Without Dying or Becoming Sterile?" They'd have miles of velvet ropes and neon signs encircling the place like it was a giant Graceland. Then they'd all get pissy and lynch anyone with a college degree.


I can't resist. (none / 0) (#83)
by hauntedattics on Sat Mar 16th, 2002 at 07:58:53 AM PST
Martydom? Is that where everyone gives his life for some guy named Marty?



Oops... (none / 0) (#88)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Mar 18th, 2002 at 07:19:42 AM PST
Yeah I saw that right after I clicked submit. D'oh!


hmm. (none / 0) (#89)
by nathan on Mon Mar 18th, 2002 at 08:08:47 AM PST
I think you may have missed her joke.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

BLAGHLUABLALUGBLALGAHULBAGHULG... (none / 0) (#91)
by hauntedattics on Mon Mar 18th, 2002 at 10:25:41 AM PST
(Pardon me.)



 
No.... (none / 0) (#93)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 19th, 2002 at 10:10:54 AM PST
I get the joke, but the joke was based on my typo of having spelled martyrdom without the second r. In both that post and this post I'm exposing my wet blanket personality, which is why no one likes me and I'm forced to post mindless unintersting drivel such as this on various weblogs.


god you're stupid (flame) (none / 0) (#94)
by nathan on Tue Mar 19th, 2002 at 12:11:11 PM PST
That's the form of the joke, not the joke proper.

Man. Are the g**ks actually getting dumber by the day?

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Taking the bait... (none / 0) (#95)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 19th, 2002 at 02:50:00 PM PST
Right. The joke was made that Martydom would be giving your life in the name of Marty where as martyrdom is giving your life in the name of your diety of choice. It was humorous. I responded with a rather pointless acknoledgment that I was aware of my typo that caused the joke that was funny. Hilarity ensued with this thread between me, the stupid geek, and you.

Unless Marty is some figure of significance that I should otherwise be aware of that lends additional humor to the joke, I don't see what your point is. Maybe your point is that I am easily baited into pointless debate and that you are an asshole that enjoys baiting people. If so, bravo, I continue to respond on cue as though I were a trained monkey. If you still feel that I missed the joke, please explain it to my stupid, geeky ass.


I am the soul of charity (none / 0) (#96)
by nathan on Tue Mar 19th, 2002 at 03:02:35 PM PST
The real point to making the joke, in my opinion, is that your triviliazation of holiness, and your conflation of religiousness with stupidity, would have made Martydom an appropriate action for the religious to engage in - pointless, misguided, stupid. You unintentionally satirized yourself, and your inability to understand why it was funny made it even better.

I could go on, but what's the point? You're no more capable of understanding what I found funny about your post, and Haunted's response, than you were before; and now, you think I'm a jerk to boot.

Let's just shut this down.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Thank you (none / 0) (#97)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 19th, 2002 at 04:09:18 PM PST
The point you make never occured to me because my original comments made under the subject "Martydom" were not to be taken seriously and were intended to satirize it's parent, "You Christians." I do not state that people that are religious are stupid. The intended connotation was that people, when acting as a large group, are stupid. Religious folk or at least all people who claim to be religious and would take offense to such an attack on the "Holy Land," would certainly behave in an utterly retarded fashion.

Also, I do not trivilize that which is holy. I meant to imply that aforemention stupid large groups of people generally trivilize that which they intend to make sacred, at least in America, by marketing and commercializing it. See the recent trend of attaching as many mini-American flags as you possibly can to your vehicle. I've seen as many as five flags on one vehicle.

Full disclaimer: I am agnostic. I do not understand how otherwise intelligent people can believe heart and soul in what an organized body such as the Catholic Church tell them. I do understand why otherwise intelligent people would believe in a "Creator" and have their own particular theories surrounding this "Creator". I can even understand various interpretations of the Bible or whatever other religious texts they might subscribe to. I simply disagree with them. At various points in the past in wrestling to get free of the Catholic Church I felt like nuking the Holy Land. I then went to high school.


 
the fiery falmes of hell (none / 0) (#98)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 20th, 2002 at 09:36:57 AM PST
triviliazation

Oh the humanity!


insensitive jerk! (5.00 / 1) (#99)
by nathan on Wed Mar 20th, 2002 at 11:04:55 AM PST
How well would you type if you'd just had to have a hand amputated?

I can tell you, learning Dvorak with my feet wasn't exactly easy. Yet, somehow I manage to churn out five to ten posts a day to amuse your callous, wretched ass.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Wow! (none / 0) (#101)
by because it isnt on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 06:57:36 AM PST
Sorry to hear about your recent disablement. Can still play the violin? With your feet? I am very impressed.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

I now play Indian style n/t (none / 0) (#102)
by nathan on Thu Mar 21st, 2002 at 01:26:46 PM PST

--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
Argh. (none / 0) (#33)
by RobotSlave on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 07:16:30 PM PST
OK, this isn't really important, but it's happened often enough here to irritate me.

Would somebody please use the word "ambivalent" correctly?

It keeps getting used as a synonym for "apathetic." It isn't. It means something quite different.

That is all. Carry on.


© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

 
Hmmm (none / 0) (#87)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Mar 17th, 2002 at 03:59:23 AM PST
I could be wrong but I thought that Jesus won't come back till the Jews are once again in the promise land and then have taken him as their savior. Being a <cough>Christian<cough> you shouldn't talk such rubbish


 
(anger)... (none / 0) (#100)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 20th, 2002 at 09:15:23 PM PST
You racist prick...


 
u dumbass (2.33 / 3) (#6)
by PotatoError on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 09:26:37 AM PST
You've just also explained the actions of the terrorists. That they wont stand for Israel and US opression and unfairness.

Come on, terrorists dont just fly themselves into a building for the hell of it. There is reason.

People dont dance on the street in countless countries when they hear the news for the hell of it. There is reason.

Those who fail to open their minds to see the truth are as bad as Bush, Blair and the rest of the New World Order.

"As time passed, though, the memories of the 3,000 Americans killed in the attack faded, and liberals again commenced their ever-present criticism of the American government and its foreign policies"
Actually I never stopped. After the first plane flew into the WTC I was already suspecting it was Islamic terrorists. Why would I suspect this? Because the US has been pissing them off for decades and eventually something like this will happen.

The event didnt bother me too much - just the ideals behind it. More people are killed each year from car accidents - more people are killed from alchohol related deaths and more people are killed from drug related deaths. Also handguns kill more people in the US per year than were killed at the WTC but countless americans are all too happy to keep firearms. See the stupidity here?
So saying 3000 people died doesnt make it the worst disaster in history. It sounds bad saying that but it needs to be said.
The only thing the attack did was wake people up to the fact that all actions have consequences however unfair you think they are. It showed the US that it IS pissing people off and pissed off people do stuff like that. Maybe the US should have learnt from the Israeli situation years ago...an ocean in the way isnt exactly a protection.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

For once I agree with Potato Error (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 09:48:44 AM PST
Also handguns kill more people in the US per year than were killed at the WTC but countless americans are all too happy to keep firearms. See the stupidity here?

Now, in an ideal childhood, such as my boyhood, older uncles and fathers would take you out to the range with an assortment of rifles, shotguns and pistols (.22, .30-06, modifed AR-15, water cooled Maxim, .410, 1911 Colt, .357 magnum, .22 revolver, .44 magnum) and let you familiarize oneself with the assortment of firearms that any law-abiding citizen in our great country may own (yes, machine guns too, if you get your dealers license). You would know how to load, aim and fire them, clean them, and develope a fine appreciation for those useful tools that freed us from Albion's iron grasp and secures our freedom against fuzzy minded Com-Symps. You would learn the basics of firearm safety, summed up in two rules:
  • Always assume every gun is loaded.
  • Don't point a gun at anything unless you intend to kill it
Sadly, today children learn about sexual perversions in school, and guns on TV or on the street. Is it any wonder so many people die by gunshot? If every teenager street-thug knew just how effective a properly aimed 1911 Colt was, street gangs would be a lot more polite, and shootouts would be far quicker. Ancillary targets (5 year olds, people hiding in houses) would be far fewer too.

So please, write your local school board and demand guns not sex in school.


A. Rightmann

Exactly (none / 0) (#16)
by Right Hand Man on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 10:47:14 AM PST
Although I would question the man's statistics.

You could certainly make the claim if you included persons killed by the military, and the police, and suicides, and people protecting themselves, and so on and so forth. I don't think it can be made if you just consider accidental deaths and murders.




-------------------------
"Keep your bible open and your powder dry."

 
So THIS is the liberal war plan. (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 09:54:06 AM PST
Unconditional surrender to the extreme Islamists?

Why, since you can't judge cultures, the horrible civil rights and subhuman status of women in Islamic theocracies isn't "bad" at all, and we haughty Americans should just continue to let them blow up statues.

And our standing up for freedom and democracy across the globe? What arrogance! Didn't we realize that poor ol' Osama had feeling too?


This is the typical response (none / 0) (#22)
by PotatoError on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:37:37 AM PST
"So we are just supposed to let them do it?"

No, of course not. But if you had followed our reasoning a decade ago this event would never have happened.

"And our standing up for freedom and democracy across the globe?"
Not so much freedom and democracy as standing up for American interests with no consideration of the consequences. Thats why some people (not me) hate america. When your child is killed by Israeli soldiers armed with US weapons then you tend to get a little pissed off right? Especially when the US instead of sanctioning Israel chooses to sanction your own country, accusing it of being inhumane.
When Iraq is condoned by the US for not following the geneva convention on the treatment of its prisonners of war but then later, the US decides that captured taliban fighters arent considered prisonners of war and actually considers torturing information out of them. Thats a bit hypocritical.
When the US condones the regime of Saddam Hussein because of "humanitarian reasons" but then supports facist and oppressive governments in other countries where the US has economic interests - that is also hypocracy.
This is how people get pissed off...and with no unbiased international law you are bound to get some people taking matters into their own hands.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

Well... (none / 0) (#29)
by hauntedattics on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 03:21:39 PM PST
I don't think the U.S. government has a lock on hypocrisy or inconsistent foreign policy, do you? Plenty of other countries use their own national interest to direct their respective foreign policies; the U.S. is just the largest and most visible of these.

It always interests me how Israel (or the U.S. as its 'protector') is the focal point for Arab anger. Especially when hundreds of Muslims were just recently killed in sectarian violence in Gujarat, simply because they were Muslim. Have you heard anything about that from the Arab states? Me neither. There's some inconsistency for you.

(By the way, I think you meant 'condemn' where you said 'condone.' 'Condone' is more along the lines of 'support.')




 
WHAT!?!?!? (none / 0) (#92)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Mar 18th, 2002 at 07:22:10 PM PST
The taliban that were captured had it beter than if they were still fighting for Osama. They got medical treatment, 3 hots and a bed, their prayers were played over a loudspeaker every day for them. How can you say that <CITE>actually considers torturing information out of them.</CITE>

What ever fucker


 
irrelevant... (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 09:55:57 AM PST
More people are killed each year from car accidents - more people are killed from alchohol related deaths and more people are killed from drug related deaths. Also handguns kill more people in the US per year than were killed at the WTC but countless americans are all too happy to keep firearms. See the stupidity here?

But they weren't killed by handguns or car accidents, were they? If someone dies due to medical malpractise you don't say "Oh well, a lot more people died this year in car accidents."

By your logic there's no reason to get upset if the US causes suffering through its foreign policy...


It is relevant (none / 0) (#24)
by PotatoError on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:48:13 AM PST
When your president stands up on TV and makes a big deal at the "tragic loss of life" then he's just playing on the sentimental value rather than looking at the deeper truth.

One of the "enemy" could similarly stand up and make a big deal at the "tragic loss of life" caused by American foreign policy. Mainly its support of Israel and the way it never condoned any of Israels contraversially inhumane actions.
Therefore I neither see America or the Arabs as good or bad - they are just as good and bad as each other.

Did you know for example that its estimated that as many civilians died in Afgahnistan due to US bombing as died at WTC? What do you think those people are saying? "Oh well, I guess they had to kill someone in revenge..why not my child?"..or maybe they will think more along the lines of "what the fuck did they bomb our village and kill my family for?! I never did nothing to them".

And for every 100 people you make think like this you are going to breed 1 hard core terrorist wanting revenge. Cuz as america has proved - revenge lust is universal regardless of how developed you are.

<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

You're treating the Muslim... (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 03:06:27 PM PST
...world as though it were a monolith.

Fact: Osama bin Laden said virtually nothing about Israel before the bombs began to fall on Afghanistan. He played it as a trump card, hoping it would rouse the Muslim world to fight the US- which hasn't happened. Know why? Because while the Palestinians naturally care about their own plight, the rest of the Muslim world does little more than pay lip service to their situation. Did you know that the Jordanian army killed thousands of Palestinians in the 1970s? Did you know that no Arab country, save Jordan, will allow Palestinians to become citizens? Why is that? Are you familiar with the concept of a 'political football?'

If 9/11 were just about Israel, why were none of the highjackers Palestinian? You'd know that Palestinians are hardly strangers to highjacking if you've studied history.

I realize that many like to point out that the US 'props up' corrupt regimes, but these same people never acknowledge that the groups who'd like to overthrow these corrupt regimes aren't democratic, they're even more oppressive and backwards....

Don't take this as a defense of US foreign policy. I certainly don't agree with all of it. But the answers are much more complicated than you seem to think.


Good points (none / 0) (#45)
by asharp on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 02:16:11 AM PST
To be fair though, the author of the article was the one to link Palestine to 9/11.

Personally, I'm amazed that a Palestinian wasn't one of those who hijacked the plane. But then we don't know exactly who was controlling the operation nor do we know how much involvement Palestinians have in the Al'Queada (sp?) network.

Please feel free to enlighten us if you know!



 
terrorism (none / 0) (#11)
by nathan on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 10:05:28 AM PST
they wont stand for Israel and US opression and unfairness...

So what would you suggest instead? Maybe a group hug, followed by a circle-jerk?

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Well.. (none / 0) (#23)
by PotatoError on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:42:16 AM PST
its too late now isnt it?
3000 people dead and 2 towers collapsed. You cant turn back time.

If only you had listened in the years before - you know instead of telling people like me to shut up when we said that the US should rethink its foreign policy on the Israel situation. I can remember people asking me "why bother?" and "what can they do to us - we have the biggest army" and such gems as "yea well screw the arabs what do we care?" and rubbish like that. Well there you go - dont say you were never warned.
<<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

I ask again. (none / 0) (#31)
by nathan on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 05:15:41 PM PST
What is your solution?

Instead of telling me that I have a problem, tell me what your solution is.

I am very interested in hearing your s-o-l-u-t-i-o-n.

Thanks,
Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Well (none / 0) (#50)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 06:10:49 AM PST
my solution is to treat everyone fairly and to stop biasing all judgements towards Israel. That way you wont piss people off as much.

-PotatoError


bravo! (5.00 / 1) (#53)
by nathan on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 10:27:35 AM PST
If only you were Secretary of Defense. Hell, President of the USA.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Re: (none / 0) (#55)
by tkatchev on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 11:36:22 AM PST
President of the World.


--
Peace and much love...




 
Really man... (none / 0) (#74)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Mar 15th, 2002 at 12:58:24 PM PST
You seem to be awfully obsessed with hugs and circle-jerks. Personally I recommend doing it in the opposite order. Stickier that way.


 
And the reason is... (none / 0) (#57)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 01:33:07 PM PST
Come on, terrorists dont just fly themselves into a building for the hell of it. There is reason.

Well, yes. Their reason is that they think that's the most effective way of achieving their goals.

So our goal is to help them understand that those methods aren't really effective in this situation. Maybe someday they'll crack open a history book and look at alternate strategies. (Hint: Western democracies are complete suckers for the whole civil disobedience/non-violent resisistance thing, especially if you can combine it with some halfway-convincing rhetoric.)


 
Question. (none / 0) (#14)
by hauntedattics on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 10:25:09 AM PST
Wasn't an American in the CIA or armed forces convicted of spying for the Israelis some time ago? Is he still in jail?



Perhaps (none / 0) (#19)
by dmg on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:25:24 AM PST
You were thinking of Mordechai Vanunu imprisoned by the Israeli government for blowing the whistle on their nuclear program.

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

Or (none / 0) (#85)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Mar 16th, 2002 at 04:50:09 PM PST
Or maybe Jonathan Pollard.

Or possibly the so-called art students.


Art students (none / 0) (#86)
by The Mad Scientist on Sat Mar 16th, 2002 at 06:53:51 PM PST
Espionage is an art of its own kind.

Actually more enjoyable than many other kinds of art.


 
the truth is out there (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 09:47:26 PM PST
An outrage against the children of Jefferson!. There is no end to the Zionist conspiracy.


 
the arab-israeli conflict in a nutshell (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:01:16 AM PST
If I have to die in a nuclear holocaust because two otherwise identical semitic tribes think they have blood and holy rights to the same spit of dirt in the desert, I'll be fucking pissed.


No. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by dmg on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:22:51 AM PST
You'll be dead.

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

 
nuke the israelis instead (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:27:30 AM PST
why dont we just nuke the israelis out of israel, allow the palestinians to live there, and get support from every arab country ? in the same wave, we can put an end to jewish hegemony in the western world


The Hollywood connection? (none / 0) (#36)
by RootComplex on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 08:58:34 PM PST
I thought all the Hewbrew control of western cultures stemmed from their roles as producers of soft-core pornography. I'm sure anyone else who's stayed up late on a friday night cleaning guns and watching Skinimax can attest to this. Well, provided they made it to the credits that is.


 
racist (none / 0) (#81)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Mar 16th, 2002 at 06:40:57 AM PST
maybe if we got a planeload of racist people like you, and dropped them on Afghanistan, it would be a better nuke.


 
Israel knows how handle terrorists (none / 0) (#21)
by FeedMeaStrayCat on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 11:30:01 AM PST
Yup, they sure have that "Terrorist Problem" nipped in the bud.


The Israeli Approach to Terrorism (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 02:08:21 PM PST
Israeli soldiers don't hesitate to shoot rock-throwing Palestinian children dead. They've been known to hire Arabic speakers to taunt the children to draw them out, so the bored Israeli soldiers will have something to do. This ensures said children do not have the chance to grow up to learn to fly planes into buildings.

Yep, Israel, what a saintly nation, pure as driven snow for sure.




Oh give me a flippin' break (none / 0) (#32)
by seventypercent on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 06:18:29 PM PST
Israeli soldiers don't hesitate to shoot rock-throwing Palestinian children dead.

And do you know why that is? It's because when those "children" grow up in ten years, the rock will be replaced by an assault rifle or a suicide bomb strapped across their chest! And instead of simply breaking a window or bruising somebody's limbs, they will kill potentially dozens of fair-skinned peoples.

There are no such thing as "Palestinian children." There are only "future Palestinian terrorists." The sooner that you bleeding-hearts recognize this, the better.

--
Red-blooded patriots do not use Linux.

So, why .... (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 03:15:50 AM PST
Why not kill all new born Palestinian babies?
Why not sterilize all Palestinian women?
Or a vasectomy for every Palestinian male?


 
Holy Cow! (none / 0) (#54)
by FeedMeaStrayCat on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 10:57:01 AM PST
You're practicaly advocating the killing of children because they're palestinian. That's wonderful.

You can call us bleeding hearts all you want. I'm not offended.


 
They sure know .... (none / 0) (#48)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 03:26:11 AM PST
After having been terrorists themselves, and after 50 years of war against terrorism, with the result we can observe everyday.


 
2 major points I wanna touch on (1.00 / 1) (#27)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 02:15:18 PM PST
Israelis hate Islam. Islam is the world's foremost destabilizing factor. Islam has been responsible for countless wars and conflicts throughout history, and today its zealots threaten the very existence of the West. Ariel Sharon has no tolerance whatsoever for these cretins, and will do everything in his power to eradicate this evil cult.

This is a very stereotypical attitude. Isalm isn't all bad. Not all muslims interpret the religious text for the gain. Everything you mentioned could also be said about Christians. There have been more wars and unforgivable acts (Spanish Inquisition) in the name of Chritianity than any other religion.

Israel is a loyal friend. Israel has never waged war against the U.S.A. or spied on us. Israel has the utmost respect for our interests, and contributes heavily to our economy; in fact, Israel spends billions of dollars every year on weapons that are used to annihilate our enemies, the Palestinians, in the region. How many of our other allies do that for us? Every other nation in the U.N. takes our money and our troops to fight their harebrained "peacekeeping missions," and Israel is the only country that gives anything at all back to us. At the minimum, we owe them our allegiance and support.

Since when do we consider the Palestinians to be our enemy? You don't see us sending in troops to "kill them all" or even aid Isreal do you? The only reason Isreal really likes us and supports us is because of what we give them. Look at all the Apache helicopters they fly.


American guns (none / 0) (#79)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Mar 16th, 2002 at 12:40:46 AM PST
And don't forget the Colts they shoot with...


 
For those who think Israel has never attacked... (none / 0) (#30)
by phiber on Tue Mar 12th, 2002 at 04:46:00 PM PST
... the United States: check this out.


Right on (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Mar 13th, 2002 at 01:36:27 AM PST