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Do you believe in free will?
No 100%

Votes: 4

 Victoria, BC: Potemkin Village of the Frozen North

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Jan 11, 2002
Like most right thinking individuals, I am a big fan of tradition. Unfortunately, as a software professional, tradition requires me to spend New Years Eve drinking alone, playing video games and sobbing uncontrollably. While I'm as conservative as the church is true, this past New Years I decided to do something a little different: I went to Canada.

With the fair chloedancer by my side, I traveled to Victoria, British Columbia in search of a good time. I didn't find it (except when alone with the lovely chloedancer), but I hope that my story can serve to warn others about the dangers of third world vacations.


More stories about Communism
The Truth About Reality TV
Bedtime for Democracy: Human Rights and other Bad Ideas
From Kids To Commies: The Truth About Daycare
Happy Labor Day -- Now Get Lost
Dealing With Communism in the Workplace
British engineering genius and the Homosexualist Socialist conspiracy
I know what you've been processing

More stories by
Peter Johnson

Solving Teen Pregnancy
The Law Fought The Law And Nobody Won
Winning The Battle Against Pornography
The Science of Poetry
A Time For Patriots
Writing Satire For A Technical Audience
The Proselytizing Atheist
Boom City, USA

Geographically, The People's Republic of Canada is the second largest nation on earth, but its population is a scant 35 million. As 17% of the country consists of inhospitable permafrost and an astonishing 54% is untamed forest that the Canadians are too lazy to fell in the name of progress, 85% of these unfortunate, pale pink skinned savages make their living within 200 miles of the USian border. Decent health care is only available to the very rich and even they must cross the border into USia to obtain it as what little heath care infrastructure the country possessed has been destroyed by an ineffective and costly system of socialized medicine.

Of course, ill advised nationalization schemes are hardly unique to Canada. The plague of communist ideals infests most third world nations and is the chief obstacle preventing them from enjoying the standards of prosperity, literacy and health most USians take for granted. Canada, however is worse than most.

Like many an intrepid adventurer before me, I always pack my Discover Card when exploring new territory. Not only does it "pay to Discover," but the card is accepted wherever you see the Novus Network sign. Also, my Discover Card safer than carrying cash in the crime ridden ghettos of the frozen North, and it bears original artwork by the only surviving member of the Beatles, Ringo Starr. Truly, my Discover Card is the perfect form of currency.

At least it would be the perfect form of currency if the backwards and technologically deprived merchants of Canada could be persuaded to accept the blasted thing. They can't. Apparently processing my Discover Card is beyond the capabilities of their primitive electronic banking system.

So there I was in Canada, a nation that likes to think of itself as the 51st state without any form of electric currency. No problem thought I, I've got $200 USD and the delightful and intoxicating Chloedancer by my side; I'll be fine. Unfortunately, the process of turning the delightful and intoxicating Chloedancer into the delightfully intoxicated Chloedancer took half that sum and a new pair of shoes accounted for the remainder. (The third world is a great place to buy shoes as the vast quantities of cheap, illiterate and unskilled workers attract shoe manufacturers.)

I ran out of money on day 3 of my 5 day stay on scenic Vancouver Island, which had its good and bad points. The worst thing was that I had to ask the luscious Chloedancer to pick up the check for the remainder of the trip. In her wisdom, she was better prepared for the primitive environment that is Canada than I and she graciously agreed to pay for the remainder of our stay. On the plus side, I got to see Canada from the perspective of the average Canadian (solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short) rather than as a wealthy USian tourist.

To the casual observer, Victoria could pass for a USian city. The streets are wide and packed with traffic, the citizens are dressed in typical USian middle class garb and there is even a McDonald's. On closer examination however it begins to resemble a nightmare vision of USia, one that could only appeal to the white supremacists of Northern Idaho. The only black man I saw in Victoria worked in a restaurant and the Chicano community was completely non-existent. Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing our neighbors to the North of out and out racism (although that is a very plausible explanation). I'm just observing that whatever means the Canadian government uses to promote ethnic diversity are clearly not adequate.

Fortunately, I'm descended from hearty bands of Danes, Swedes and Norwegians who crossed the Atlantic to join Brigham Young in the promised land, so I could blend in perfectly with the aryans that surrounded me. I simply took to mispronouncing the letter "O" and saying "eh" a lot and they accepted me as one of their own.

Posing as a vacationing lumberjack from the icy Yukon, I learned the truth about this seemingly USian city. Victoria is naught but a facade designed to project a positive image of Canada to visiting USians. A great deal of effort has gone into this charade, but, as always, the devil is in the details.

My dearest love, Chloedancer, had mentioned the strange fact that there is a computer store on nearly every street corner. This struck her as being a bit unusual on a small, sparsely populated island. It was even more unusual considering that computers are a tool of the literate and Victoria is strangely lacking in bookstores. Closer examination revealed that most of these shops were dedicated to the Apple Macintosh.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the history of computing, the Apple Macintosh is a type of computer that was quite popular in the late 80's and early 90's. Eventually it was rendered obsolete by the release of Microsoft's astonishingly popular Windows95 operating system which did everything the Macintosh did but ran on much less expensive and faster hardware. While the Macintosh still hangs on in the graphic design market and is aggressively marketed by Apple, the idea that a town the size of Victoria could support 2 Macintosh retailers, still less the dozens we counted is preposterous.

Now I know that the handful of Macintosh advocates out there will be up in arms about these statements, but it's the simple truth. Over 90% of personal computers run some version of Microsoft Windows. While I'll not dispute that the Macintosh may be the finest system nobody uses, I must also point out that the Amiga, Lunix and BeOS communities make the same claim and you can't all be right.

When you consider that Apple pays good money for the placement of Macintoshes in movies like "Independence Day" and "The Net," the explanation for the shops of Victoria becomes clear. Obviously this is the result of a joint marketing campaign by Apple and the Canadians to make Canada seem technologically advanced and the Macintosh seem like a viable computing platform. Both assertions are demonstrably false.

Additionally, the lovely Chloedancer and I counted 5 adult boutiques. While there's nothing wrong with the use and enjoyment of marital aids, 5 shops in a city that cannot house more than 90,000 inhabitants seems a bit odd. It's worth noting that the greater Salt Lake City metropolitan area, with 10 times the population can only support 2 adult boutiques. Once again I smelled a marketing ploy and my subtle interrogations of the locals proved my hunch.

If you're going to run a country with a degree of ethnic diversity that the Third Reich would have envied, you must be very careful to avoid charges of fascism. What better way to demonstrate a fun loving and tolerant environment than wall to wall clitoral and anal stimulators? Canada is saying "look at all these butt-plugs, surely we're not about to round up homosexuals and send them to extermination camps." Once again I'd like to note that I'm not accusing Canadians of out and out racism or homophobia, but if they had nothing to hide would they be working so hard on their image? I think not.

I'm not the only one who noticed something false and repellent about Victoria. While visiting the Crystal Gardens, a pigmy marmoset managed to tunnel out of its cage. This smallest member of the primate family immediately spotted chloedancer and me and headed toward us. I will never forget the look on its little marmoset face as it seemed to plead with us to help it escape this frozen, socialist wasteland. How it knew we were USians is a mystery to me, but I am certain that it did.

Perhaps the saddest example of the deceit and false advertising that permeates Victoria relates to the female breast. It's a matter of record that unsound and inflationary monetary policies have made the Canadian dollar worth about 70% of its USian counterpart, but I had no idea that the same was true of their women. Here in the states, the most common bra size is a 36 C, just as it is in Canada. Unfortunately, when my beloved chloedancer attempted take advantage of the exchange rates to purchase a pair, she found they just didn't fit.

It seems that a USian 36 C is actually larger than a Canadian 36 D. Are our neighbors to the North so insecure about their flat chested women that they must incorrectly identify cup sizes? It seeems incredible, but no other explanation fits the facts. I suspect that not only are USian breasts larger, but they are also firmer and more full than their Canadian counterparts. I was going to test this theory, but chloedancer objected to my feeling up the women of Canada. I protested that it was all in the name of science, but to no avail. Some women just don't appreciate the sacrifices that science demands.

Finally, something must be said about Victoria's fetish for all things British. Their list of top tourist activities is as follows:

  1. High tea at the Empress.
  2. Tours via "Tally Ho" carriages.
  3. Tours via "English style" double-decker busses.
  4. Visits to the "Royal Wax Museum."

Is Canada so devoid of character that it must import it from the British Isles? I don't see Detroit advertising itself as "Ye Olde Motore Citie." Of course this isn't just Victoria, all Canada is divided into Canadians who like to pretend they're French and Canadians who want to pretend they're British. Those who don't fit into either category define themselves as "sort of like Americans, but not really." The second largest nation on earth has nothing that even remotely resembles a national soul. The Canadians may pretend to be British (or French) all they like, but behind that is a gnawing lack of identity and behind that lies the endless expanse of the tundra.

In the final analysis, Victoria BC is a pitiful exhibition. It's a painful attempt at overcompensation by a nation that is (rightfully) ashamed of itself. Much like picked on adolescents who turn to Ayn Rand and her imago of pitiless strength to hide their own helplessness, nobody is fooled and what pity we are inclined to feel is overwhelmed by disgust. Would I recommend visiting Victoria, BC? If you can make the trip in the company of a woman as amazing as Chloedancer, absolutely. Otherwise, I'm afraid that Victoria has little to recommend itself.


I don't want to sound like a Canuck, but... (none / 0) (#4)
by Thon on Fri Jan 11th, 2002 at 09:19:23 PM PST
no matter how cute it may be, a mutt is never going to bring home best in show. Sometimes I wonder if these "melting pot" people ever think about the rational conclusion to what they are proposing.

"I undrestand"

But... (none / 0) (#5)
by First Incision on Fri Jan 11th, 2002 at 10:10:18 PM PST
A short-haired, earthtone-colored mutt is going to survive a lot longer in the wild than a white poodle or an inbred deaf dalmation.
Do you suffer from late-night hacking? Ask your doctor about Protonix.

But what? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by Thon on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 11:37:15 AM PST
"inbred deaf dalmation."

I believe you meant "purebred deaf dalmation." Also, are you suggesting we throw man's best friend into the wilderness like some sort of cat? I mean I'm not a man to put into question how another man gets his jollies, but when you mistreat dogs (or slaves) something must be said.

"I undrestand"

Thon. (none / 0) (#36)
by DieForYourGovernment on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 08:06:45 AM PST
Get a damn dictionary.

That's the easy part. (none / 0) (#48)
by Thon on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 10:41:07 PM PST
Of course if you wanted to see an improvement in the ratio of correctly spelled words to incorrectly spelled words in my posts, well, then I would have to learn to use it.


PS: I'm sorry if my signature makes you sad. While true I didn't intend to mistype "understand," I find I like it better that way now. It's more original. Like me! :) ...and Dr. Pepper.

"I undrestand"

But can she cook? (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 03:05:39 AM PST
You're obviously a real software professional. I can tell by the subtle subtext of your article: "HEY, LOOK EVERYBODY, I'M GOING OUT WITH A FEMALE! SHE HAS BREASTS AND EVERYTHING!"

P.S. Canada is cleaner, healthier, better-educated, more polite, less crime-ridden, and overall way way better than the USA. You think Vancouver's a tourist trap hellhole? Try spending your next vacation in Reno or Orlando.

Femininity in the new millennium (none / 0) (#13)
by chloedancer on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 12:50:40 PM PST
Can I cook? Last night's dinner was broiled Dungeness crab-stuffed portobello mushrooms, absolutely perfect steamed asparagus drizzled with a lemon, garlic & wine reduction sauce, and tiramisu for dessert (all made from scratch). I also do catering for fun every now and again, cooking for the national acts performing at a local concert series each summer and at the annual arts & music blowout event.

My parents attempted to raise me to be Donna Reed when I grew up, but I somehow managed to take that oh-so-crucial left turn at Albuquerque and ended up becoming something else. I'm an IT professional who can also wear black velvet, gartered stockings, diamonds and opera gloves with the matching highbrow demeanor in effect; I do this for amusement every now and again (I refer to it as "wearing drag", truth be known). As the old Enjoli perfume commercial jingle went, "I can bring home the bacon/Fry it up in the pan/And never, ever let you forget/That you're a man..." Shoeboy simply was either smart enough or lucky enough to discover this and I offer no apologies for being damned near perfect.

Get a clue -- the "lipstick tech" next to you can be more than you'd ever dreamed of; don't let the work uniform of jeans, sneakers and t-shirts fool you into actually believing that she's just like you when the workday ends.

Oh, and Shoeboy? Just remember that, as a consequence of being destitute for the remaining three days' time of our soujourn, you were owned at that point. Fondling the locals would have resulted in your having been tragically evicted from our accomodations, alas. I, quite likely, would still have continued to have fun in your absence... You might remember the guy seated at the table next to ours while we enjoyed dinner on New Year's Day? He seemed to be having a fair amount of difficulty keeping his eyes from wandering over to admire me instead of paying attention to his own dining companion. Whenever you feel the urge to maul another woman in the name of "scientific inquiry", just remember that I'll never dine alone except as a result of my own choosing.

hey (none / 0) (#15)
by Peter Johnson on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 01:28:13 PM PST
Look, you and I both know that I bow to your every whim. When you say jump I say how high and all that. I'll not deny it.

But can I please pretend to be a dignified, worldly man on the internet. Just like the helpdesk techs at slashdot pretending to be ultra-1337 unix admins, the internet is my place to pretend I have a backbone.

Of course, if you don't want me to pretend to have a spine, that's ok. I'll do whatever you say.
Are you adequate?

*sigh* (none / 0) (#23)
by First Incision on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 06:14:42 PM PST
Just when I think I'm content not having a girlfriend, a thread like this comes along.
Do you suffer from late-night hacking? Ask your doctor about Protonix.

don't worry (none / 0) (#35)
by nathan on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 08:03:30 AM PST
The chloe/shoe exchange is just causing the intended effect, that's all.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Masculinity in the new millennium (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by chloedancer on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 07:32:30 PM PST
Oh, come now. With regard to dealing with a woman of substance, that mode of response is pitifully outdated and you know better, really. Just in case you need a reminder, here's the deal:

If you were spineless, I'd never enjoy your company as much as I do. Instead, I prefer the model whereby I state my terms and you're free to choose your actions in response (and the reverse is also true). It's a no-nonsense and more respectful approach, yes? As a right-thinking male, I think that you actually appreciate having a woman who is direct and uncomplicated with no hidden agendas or game-playing strategies; there's no denying that you know you'll always get a straight answer whenever you need to know what I think, right?

While we may not always see eye-to-eye, that just means that there's room for negotiation and compromise. Consider this: if you'd instead proposed with equal enthusiasm that I also would be welcomed to participate in the scientific inquiry you desired to pursue, that might have changed my opinion, ma cher. You know that, too, but just aren't ready to go there yet and I respect that.

Your masculine self-identity is strong enough take me at face value and I appreciate it -- it means that I don't have to placate your ego, pretend, mince or simper, either. I think it's refreshing and that it fosters a win-win outcome, don't you?

As to the "kept man" part, please remember that there are some who would, in fact, envy your status in that capacity, even if it was only a temporary condition. Variety is the spice of life, after all, and you well know that I'm quite capable of running circles around you when it comes to basic life skills if for no other reason that I've simply had more practice. And you certainly didn't mind it at the time if my memory serves, so don't pretend otherwise, all right?

Be proud to be a man with a woman who can take care of herself, stand her ground and, while being very independent by nature, has chosen your company above all others and absolutely adores you. Hell, all things considered, it would not be inappropriate for you to be downright smug about it; if so, you'd have my blessings 'cause you've certainly earned 'em.

See (none / 0) (#58)
by Peter Johnson on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 10:24:00 AM PST
That's exactly the kind of comment I was looking for. Makes me seem like a bit of a swell. Doesn't rob me of my diginity at all.
<p>Thanks chloedancer, you keep reminding me why I love you so.
<p>Now I've got to get back to cleaning your bathroom floor with a toothbrush. Later my dear.

Are you adequate?

I seem to have fallen in love... (none / 0) (#7)
by luisa on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 03:08:45 AM PST
with both the charming Mr. Johnson and the delightful Ms. Chloedancer. They must obviously be extremely attractive individuals, to inspire me to actually read an article.

Yes, we are... (none / 0) (#14)
by chloedancer on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 01:12:12 PM PST
but do keep in mind that we're both what I would describe as being "high maintenance" in some rather demanding ways. I think that the world should breathe a collective sigh of relief for the fact that we've found each other (thereby negating the possibility of our inflicting ourselves on anyone else less "well-equipped" for keeping either of us satiated in the long-term). Think of it as being one less unfortunate circumstance in the world, if you will.

We love you too (none / 0) (#57)
by Peter Johnson on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 10:19:59 AM PST
Are you adequate?

ummmm (none / 0) (#8)
by PotatoError on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 05:53:32 AM PST
"I'm just observing that whatever means the Canadian government uses to promote ethnic diversity are clearly not adequate."

your one of these quacks arent you, who agrees with a ethnic quotering system in the workplace.


Britishness (none / 0) (#9)
by because it isnt on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 06:01:49 AM PST
Finally, something must be said about Victoria's fetish for all things British.

I'm just wondering, Peter, if anyone told you what the "BC" in "Victoria, BC" stands for. I'd also like to know if you are aware who was the reigning Queen of Great Britain between 1837 and 1901. These two nuggets of information would help you understand the overwhelming Britishness of Victoria, BC. -- because it isn't

So by your logic (none / 0) (#18)
by Peter Johnson on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 03:14:56 PM PST
If I name my son Xerxes then it's only a matter of time before he begins indiscriminately slaughtering Greeks?

I'm not the first editor to observe this, but you, sir, are a twit.
Are you adequate?

Yes (none / 0) (#26)
by because it isnt on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 08:37:39 PM PST
If I name my son Xerxes then it's only a matter of time before he begins indiscriminately slaughtering Greeks?

Have you actually named your son Xerxes? No? Well then. However, imagine this scenario: you're outside a shop. The sign on it says "shoe shop". You go in. They're selling shoes. Coincidence?

I'm not the first editor to observe this, but you, sir, are a twit.

Respectfully put. You should hear the other things they call me. -- because it isn't

Imagine this (none / 0) (#32)
by Peter Johnson on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 02:04:09 AM PST
You're driving down the road and you see a sign that says "Now entering Athens." You look around, but there isn't a marble ruin or gyro stand anywhere about. And instead of handsome dark haired and olive skinned Greeks, you see illiterate Southern USians given to chewing tobacco, spitting, incest and the practice of Klu Kluxery. Coincidence?

Are you adequate?

No (none / 0) (#45)
by doofus on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 05:29:46 PM PST
It merely means the targeting data was not analyzed correctly, but no matter, drop the ordance anyway - you won't have enough fuel to get home otherwise.

Athens? (none / 0) (#51)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 04:26:45 AM PST
The road-sign must be damaged. It's missing the letters "H" and "E" at the start. -- because it isn't

Canuckia... (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 09:36:35 AM PST
Having lived (and still living) in Canada, I must say the authors representation of Canada is quite accurate...

Meanwhile, back on Earth, the reality is here we have a typical Usian thinking they are the center of the universe about everything and clearly lacking any fact (like Victoria BC being too British? Yoohoo, wakey wakey...) about anything beyond the borders of their own skulls.

At least someone feels a little the same as me.... (none / 0) (#17)
by budlite on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 02:28:37 PM PST
"Meanwhile, back on Earth, the reality is here we have a typical Usian thinking they are the center of the universe about everything and clearly lacking any fact (like Victoria BC being too British? Yoohoo, wakey wakey...) about anything beyond the borders of their own skulls."

YES! Thank you! Someone with a little sense! It's like I said in my own comment, America hasn't always been - the nation we all know as America was started by a group of British settlers who happened across a chunk of rock across the Atlantic, decided that the natives living there were savages and proceeded to kick the living sh*t out of them for no reason whatsoever and believed they had the right to do so.

Before anyone starts shouting at me for having an restricted and inaccurate view of the British, then please note that I myself am British, so I am perfectly well qualified to make these statements.

I'd just like people to recognise that NO country is perfect (the UK and America included), and that you can't judge one country against another - it just doesn't work like that.

America, America (none / 0) (#19)
by Peter Johnson on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 03:37:07 PM PST
YES! Thank you! Someone with a little sense! It's like I said in my own comment, America hasn't always been - the nation we all know as America was started by a group of British settlers who happened across a chunk of rock across the Atlantic, decided that the natives living there were savages and proceeded to kick the living sh*t out of them for no reason whatsoever and believed they had the right to do so.

So many errors, so little time.

First off, America is the name of a pair of continents, not a country. While it's a popular mistake to refer to the United States as "America," it's still a mistake. Mexicans, Brazillians and even Canadians have just as much of a right to call themselves "Americans" as Usians do.

Secondly, the United States of America was founded when the inhabitants of 13 British colonies rebelled. While British subjects, these colonists included large nubmers or Irishmen, Africans, Dutchmen, Germans and Spaniards as well as an British majority. In fact, the first "American" killed as part of the USian independence movement was an African-USian by the name of Crispus Attucks.

Third, while the treatment of Native Americans by European colonists was usually apalling, some colonial leaders in what was to become USia (William Penn springs to mind) were quite ethical in there treatment of the original inhabitants of the land. Unfortunately these precedents were not followed in later USian history.

Fourth, the pilgrims who arrived on the Mayflower arrived by way of Holland, where they had been living for several years.

Finally, being British does not excuse ignorance. You might as well claim, like ESR does, that you're qualified to speak authoritatively on the subject of anthropology because you wrote part of nethack.

To sum up: you are in error, you have criticized your betters and you need to apologize.
Are you adequate?

ESR's true colors. (none / 0) (#21)
by tkatchev on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 03:49:06 PM PST
He didn't "write a part of nethack". Rather, he contributed a few lines of crap code - the nethack development team probably felt bad rejecting the code.

Peace and much love...

Not a snowball's... (none / 0) (#77)
by budlite on Wed Jan 16th, 2002 at 01:57:20 PM PST
No, sorry, no apologies from me. I maintain that you have a very narrow-minded view of the world, and trying to threaten me by showing a list of names containing your name isn't going to make me say anything.

I don't quite see how you can justify calling yourself my "better", either. What is it that makes you or anyone else better than me? I don't believe that any person is better than any other person, when you consider all possible factors (which not you or I or anyone else can really do).

The USA is the most important nation in history (none / 0) (#20)
by Robert Reginald Rodriguez on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 03:47:55 PM PST
You can't sensibly deny this simple, obvious fact of modern life. If you don't live in America, then you don't live in the finest nation on Earth. If you don't live in America, you live in a second-rate nation. You might live in a socialist "worker's paradise" like Canada. You might live in a dirt poor banana republic, like Mexico. Wherever you live, if you are not an American, then you are inferior, based purely on your nation of birth.

Who invented the motor car? America.
Who invented the rocket? America.
Who invented the computer? America.
Who invented the atom bomb? America.
Who invented the telephone? America.
Who invented the radio? America.

Who won every single war fought this century against tyranny and oppression? Who rescued Europe in her darkest hour? Who made the world safe for democracy? Who KEEPS the world safe for democracy?

Who made the modern world possible? America.

Every time an American points out that other nations are not even trying to live up to our shining example, we get to hear all about how terrible America really is. Would you rather be speaking German? It seems the world needs to be reminded on a regular basis that it is America to whom they owe the luxury and safety of their lives. Even now, Americans are dying alone in Afghanistan to keep you safe from international terrorists. It sickens me, the thanks we get.

We die to defend you. We manufacture the modern goods that you take for granted. We provide all your entertainment. The least we ask is a little gratitude. For all intents and purposes, America IS the center of YOUR universe. Accept it. Get over it. If you want to be a part of it, all you have to do is move here. America is, after all, the land of opportunity. Even foreigners can, with effort, make a good life for themselves here.

Gratitude? (none / 0) (#24)
by First Incision on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 06:21:03 PM PST
Since when are we asking for a little gratitude? I would rather have money, which we get. All these non-US types can bitch and moan for all I care.
Do you suffer from late-night hacking? Ask your doctor about Protonix.

Actually... (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 12:01:05 AM PST
The phone was invented by Graham Bell in Nova Scotia (he himself said so in New York in the early 1900s.)

The computer was invented in England by Charles Babbage. You're thinking 'the microprocessor' which is a different although related thing.

On the other hand, the zipper is a Canadian invention...

And I for one wouldn't be too proud of being the country which 'invented' the atomic bomb - and while we're at it - was the only one ever to use it in a war (so far anyway).

ggrrr... (none / 0) (#38)
by DieForYourGovernment on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 08:19:39 AM PST
we all know a)that bell didn't invent to phone first, he patented it first. b) just because you are on vacation somewhere, doesn't mean you a permanent resident of that somewhere. I don't fill out my tax return with the address 'disneyworld,' do I?

Check your facts! (none / 0) (#39)
by iat on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 08:21:37 AM PST
I think you'll find that the motor car, rocket, computer, telephone and radio were invented by the British (although I'll admit that you bloodthirsty USians invented the atom bomb). Many of your other claims are also fallacious and unfounded. Please click here and educate yourself. - love it or leave it.

You should consider the facts before you post. (none / 0) (#107)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jul 27th, 2002 at 02:29:49 PM PST
Who invented the rocket? Germany
Who invented the computer? England
Who invented the atom bomb? America.Only thanks to a German by the name of Einstein..
Who invented the telephone? Canada.
Who invented the radio? Canada.

"Who rescued Europe in her darkest hour?" Actually although the Americans contributed to the defence of Europe with sheer numbers and shaved many years off the war, the Russians would actually get credit for saving europe by knocking out half the German army.

"Who made the world safe for democracy?" I'm afraid the US gets involved when it is in their best intrests, not the world's. If you said "Who made the US safe for democracy?" then i would have agreed.

As for the situation in Afghan., that is the US' war, not anyone elses, and yet we all help with it.

The USA is the most important nation in history.

No. I'm afraid that one goes to Britain.

Most arrogant nation. You have a good shot if your fellow Americans let you keep talking.

This is the kind of thing.... (none / 0) (#16)
by budlite on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 02:14:41 PM PST
...that makes me wonder why I bother reading

I'd ask you not to forget that the America you know today was started by British settlers.

Just bear little thoughts like that in mind before you start criticising other countries and making remarks about Canada being "too British".

The whole Discover card thing, too....just because two countries are geographically adjacent to each other doesn't mean they absolutely MUST be exactly alike. I'd have thought a better course of action would be to get a more GLOBALLY generic credit card, such as Mastercard or Visa. Discover is much much more US-centric as far as I can tell...we certainly don't have it here in England.

Your ideas about computer technology seem rather confused too. Apple computers are far from obsolete - in fact, no computer is TRULY obsolete. NASA used extremely old computers to control shuttle launches and moon landings when computers far more powerful were available, and why? Because they suited the application and were tried-and-tested - they weren't likely to fall over at the critical moment (unlike Windows machines - and I have experience). It's also silly to call x86-based hardware "faster" than the Motorola processors used in Apple machines - it's true that x86-based machines often have CPUs with higher clock rates but the designs and instruction sets are totally different, so one may be more efficient than the other - remember, clock rate isn't everything. As I was saying about computers having different applications, x86-based home computers are usually used for office work or games, while Apple computers tend to excel in graphics work. But the two are completely interchangeable. Personally I use x86 computers, running either Windows or a Unix variant, but that's just because I'm used to those.

This post shows that people just need to be a little more broad-minded and GET THEIR FACTS STRAIGHT! I've read exactly ZERO articles on that have been completely factually correct.

Thanks for your time and I'm sorry if this whole thing appears rather rambling and disjointed.

Remarkable (none / 0) (#22)
by Peter Johnson on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 04:08:12 PM PST
Your knowledge of computers is every bit as substandard as your knowledge of history.

Like most of the arrogant-yet-ignorant rabble from HardOCP and other sites, you seem to believe that Performance = IPC * Clock rate. This is false.

IPC * Clock rate gives you something called the average execution rate -- this is not the total performance of the system. For total performance you also need to take into account the number of instructions required to perform a given task. The difference between RISC and CISC is the difference between "reduced" and "complex." The RISC philosophy is to have a small number of very fast machine instructions. The CISC philosophy is to have machine instructions that, while not particularly fast, do the work of several other instructions. What this means is that if you have a CISC machine that averages 1 instruction per clock and a RISC machine that averages 1.3 IPC and both machines are operating at the same clock rate, you have 2 machines with the same average performance.

But wait, it gets worse. Not only does a RISC cpu have to execute more instructions to perform the same task, but it also has to store all those instructions in the cache to prevent the processor from stalling. On big, industrial strength, more-cache-than-god RISC processors like the Alpha, PA-RISC or IBM's server grade implementations of the PowerPC core, this isn't a problem. But on processors with a small, 256K L2 cache, like the one's we find in Wintel and Macintosh PCs, the extra ammount of cache required by a RISC architecture has a measurable performance penalty.

But that's ok, isn't it? All that really matters is the colorful plastic case, right?
Are you adequate?

You forget... (none / 0) (#31)
by tkatchev on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 12:17:11 AM PST
RISC architectures as a rule have complex pipelining schemes -- the performance of which depends not only on the physical hardware, but also on your choice of compiler!

I won't even go into architectures with explicit parallelism, like VLIW systems or MMX.

Peace and much love...

I don't get this... (none / 0) (#76)
by budlite on Wed Jan 16th, 2002 at 01:49:09 PM PST
I didn't say I believed the IPC * Clock rate performance calculation, I'm just trying to make the point that comparative performance isn't an absolute thing - you also don't seem to be taking into account the fact that not all instructions take the same amount of time to execute, how long an instruction takes to execute goes right back to the physical construction of the processor and memory, and what the instruction is actually doing, what hardware it's associated with.

My point was that certain architectures lend themselves well to certain applications. Whether a RISC processor has to execute more instructions to perform a task than a CISC processor is irrelevant - because of the differences in physical design it may or may not execute single instructions much faster.

Please note, by the way, that I am not referring to any specific architectures (PowerPC and ia32), I am trying to make the point about all current and conceivable designs.

> But that's ok, isn't it? All that really matters is the colorful plastic case, right?

There's no getting through to some people, is there?

You live here? Dear God... (none / 0) (#93)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 01:04:08 PM PST
I'd ask you not to forget that the America you know today was started by British settlers.
Yes, and they have developed their own culture. I fail to see how it's relavent to compare Canada, which is still part of the Commonwealth and tries to act "British", and America, which had a war of independance and has developed its own culture and way of life.
we certainly don't have [Discovery Cards] here in England.
You think that just because we dont have it here means that it must just be a US phenominon? Maybe the author has travelled to other countries where his Discovery card was quite readily accepted and so Canada and the UK are the odd ones out in this regard?
NASA used extremely old computers to control shuttle launches and moon landings when computers far more powerful were available
I'd like you to prove that assertion. I find it far more likely that the computers NASA used to coordinate the moon landings were top of the line in the 1960's, a time when nearly all computers were mainframes, minicomputers were only just beggining to appear and the desktop PC was barely a pipe dream.
unlike Windows machines - and I have experience
If you hadnt said it I would never have guessed. Comparing NASA's custom setup to standard Unix/Windows machines is an awful attempt at a strawman. Windows, and most Unicies for that matter, are not designed to be used in real time or failsafe environments, they are designed to be reliable general purpose operating systems. Considering the wide range of environments both get deployed in, I think they are both doing quite well.
As I was saying about computers having different applications, x86-based home computers are usually used for office work or games, while Apple computers tend to excel in graphics work. But the two are completely interchangeable.
The auther of the article actually said that. Compare:
Eventually [the Mac] was rendered obsolete by the release of Microsoft's astonishingly popular Windows95 operating system which did everything the Macintosh did but ran on much less expensive and faster hardware. While the Macintosh still hangs on in the graphic design market
There the author says pretty much the same thing you did. The Mac can do everything Wintel can do, but Wintel can do it cheaper. If given the choice between two functionally identical systems, one costing half the price of the other, which would you choose? Its only in areas of graphical design where the Mac has any significant advantage, hence its dominance in that area.

I'd like to reccomend that in future you actually bother to comprehend articles before you reply to them. This means reading them twice or possibly even three times, not just skimming through and then hitting "Post a Comment". I realise your probably in a hurry trying to beat to that climax when you fineally hit "post", but I most certainly did not enjoy reading this premature jism of yours and I should imagine most other readers here found it equally distasteful.


Notes from someone who lives there (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 09:30:41 PM PST
As a resident of Victoria, i feel somewhat compelled to point a few things out.

Most of the people who live here work in the government, tourism or services industry. Therefore, we have lots of tourist-y things to do (Old England happens to be a recurrent theme due to the history of the city), and lots and lots of restaurants.

About 300,000 people live within a 25 minute drive from downtown. We do have more computer stores than we can reasonably support, but only a couple of them are dedicated to Apple. Most are x86 only, and some have some iMacs on display, but to say that we have "dozens" of specialty Apple stores is just not true.

Most stores take Visa and MasterCard, a few take American Express, and i've never heard of a Discover card. Almost all stores in the downtown area accept US cash.

We have about a dozen McDonalds, probably twice that number of Subways, lots of Starbucks, a Burger King, a Wendys, and a few A&W's. No Arbys, Jack in the Box, or Black Angus however.

It is true not many black people live here. There is, however, a large asian population. If you take the ferry over to Vancouver, it's even larger over there. Large enough that many public schools are not in session on asian stat holidays (such as Chinese New Year). So if you want to see ethnically diverse, try Vancouver instead.

All that us residents of Victoria want from our tourist friends in the south is for you to come visit, do the tourist-y things we've promoted, and spend money in our restaurants and bars.

I'm glad the author enjoyed his stay.

You're a boneheaded simpleton (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jan 12th, 2002 at 09:49:21 PM PST
I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada. You claim to have visited Victoria, yet you create such facts as "they won't log their forests for the good of progress" and "they're all short unemployed yadda yadda". You must be stupid. We don't live in igloos, we're (statistically) smarter than you american dolts, and we have forests. We pollute less, we're a hell of a lot friendlier, and we don't all carry tasers and guns. Why? Because we're publically safer. You're an incredibly biased stereotypical moron. Shut up.

"we're a hell of a lot friendlier" (none / 0) (#33)
by error27 on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 04:26:34 AM PST
Yup. Can't argue with that.

Why don't you friggin Canadians go back to Russia where you belong.

You aren't statistically smarter (none / 0) (#37)
by DieForYourGovernment on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 08:09:24 AM PST
Your schools perform statistically better. There is a tremendous difference, when you consider that school is absolutely mandatory in the US, whereas in Canada, it is no big deal to drop out.

No big deal to drop out? (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 02:01:15 PM PST
Is there a canadian ghetto? Detroit? Nope. You have entire cities where school isn't even safe.

That is incorrect (none / 0) (#82)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 17th, 2002 at 05:08:50 PM PST
School is mandatory in Canada up until the age of 16 as it is in the United States.

You don't sound friendlier. (none / 0) (#49)
by Thon on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 10:52:09 PM PST
Although perhaps (statistically) you are.

"I undrestand"

Sorry (none / 0) (#52)
by Right Hand Man on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 06:42:09 AM PST
and we don't all carry tasers and guns

Which is why you live under the oppressive rule of jack booted socialist thugs. Your best course of action would be to buy a rifle and make ready to defend yourself against the excesses of your own government. Or course you have let things go too far and your government has already disarmed you, but I'm sure, because I've bought them there, that some fine firearms are available on the street.

"Keep your bible open and your powder dry."

Damn you're ignorant. (none / 0) (#59)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 05:20:08 PM PST
Based on US foreign policy in the past; if Canadians buy guns to defend themselves it would most likely be from the US. CIA interference in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama(actually invaded) and Peru has led to the outright murder of citizens of those countries.
The US has made no bones about involving itself in the affairs of other nations if it feels it has a vested or 'national intererest'. Your Government supported the overthrow of the shah of Iran for a 'radical' fundamentalist the ayatola kohmani. You gave Iran millions and millions in weaponry. Then when it fell into the wrong hands you decided to support someone else to counterbalance the threat in the middle-east and that was Iraq. So you guys gave them millions in weapons. As a consequence over 2 million Iranians were killed in a border dispute on the shat-al-arab against Iraq.

Your government murdered it's own citizens at Kent State. Is it just me or did the FBI not overreact a teensy weensy bit in Waco killing women and children. Your government silently wages an ethnic war against Blacks and Latinos by targeting these racial groups for incarceration in a privatized prison system which means there is no interest in rehabilitation but an interest in increased numbers of inmates, hence your fucking stupid 'war on drugs' which has justified the increased spending on law inforcement. Your access to the media is the worst in the western world. You have free speech but it's more or less a luxury of the rich and powerfull in your country. Bill Mahar expouses an opposing viewpoint and he's censured and ridiculed for it. Americans love free speech only if they like what's being said. And you accuse us of having a police state.

And by the way your Second amendment to the bill of right listen...OUTDATED!
The British aren't coming to get you. It's purpose was to keep a militia army. You already have a militia army it's called the frickin' National guard. And for all your guns you still weren't able to stop what is viewed by many in the US and outside the US as a coup de tat when your president was assassinated(Kennedy).
If you saw it happen on the news in Ecuador you would have seen it for what it was but because it happened in the good ol' US of A then mercy No! I mean why would anyone in the most powerful nation in the world want to usurp control. US citizens are politically apathetic but some of ya'll think you can make up for it and regain some controll over your lives if you arm yourselves. It's idiotic and not exactly what the enlightened founding fathers of your nation had in mind. I doubt if Benjamin Franklin if he were alive today would be packin' a glock 9mm semi-auto with chrome finish.

You think you're the most powerful nation on earth but that's not really true. If the Japanese sold off all of it's US bond holdings right now your market would be devastated and would most likely precipitate a national depression. The Europeans have harmonized their currency and they're talking about doing the same to their military. The US unfortunately because of ignorance is going to wake up one day soon and find that it's not the largest military and economic power in the world. You are going to be competing with a unified Europe on one side and an Asian economic alliance on the other.

Good luck, 'cause you guys are going to need it.

quite a leap there (none / 0) (#60)
by nathan on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 05:45:39 PM PST
From "American foreign policy is geopolitical rather than moral" (duh) you get to "America is doomed."

So what's your superior alternative? For the record, I agree that the world gun market is out of control, but that hardly dooms America. It dooms residents of nations with warlords foolish enough to import massive quantities of uncontrolled guns. To which I say, "enlightened leaders have always been in short supply." American hegemony isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if it does make you feel pathetic.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

What are you talking about? (none / 0) (#65)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 02:28:28 AM PST
"American foreign policy is geopolitical rather than moral"

That's not even a real argument. You are making an unrelated 'either or' assertion.
Is American foreign policy moral rather than geopolitical? No, of course not because foreign policies are geopolitics. It's a weird thing to say.


How do you reach the ridiculous conclusion in what I said that the arms
trade will DOOM America. (Your country is not America by the way it is the United States of America which makes up less than 1/3 of North America). My argument was about US foreign policy and domestic practices and not about 'America' sellin' guns ta' warlords. And I didn't argue that 'American hegemony was a bad thing'. What I said was the US is in a delicate position because of foreign holdings in the US bond markets and that Europe is shaping up to be larger global super power in which the US has little stake. I did not say this will doom ehm...'America' but it certainly will alter it's hegemony on the global scene. The US has had a tendency to bully the third world where the Europeans have tended to treat them more equitably. Who do you think these developing nations are going to want to deal with? And it's not a simple matter of...

'residents of nations with warlords foolish enough to import massive quantities of uncontrolled guns.'

It's a childish oversimplification. We're talking about legitimate governments being overthrown by the help of the US. It's tantamount to Germany selling leopard tanks to the KKK to overthrow the government in your country. The average US citizen probably wouldn't appreciate Germany's involvement. Just as many pro-western Iranians weren't happy when their pro-western government was overthrown by the Ayatola with the help of the US, ooops! And Why did the US invade Panama...because Noriaga was a criminal? If he was such a crimanal why was he on the CIA payroll. Why did the US involve itself in the 1960's giving millions to oppose Salvador Allende after his election which resulted in the succession of General Augusto Pinochet. A man accused of mass murder. The CIA is credited with masterminding and financing a coup in Guatamala which stopped 10 years of progressive governments, governments that were working for labor unions, and land reform (most of that land was owned by the United Fruit Company. A US company.) The list goes on Peru, The Congo, Iran, Iraq, Bolivia, Paragua...

I'm not just making this shit up. Here is a quote from a house debate back in 1990.


"During my service on the House Select Committee on Intelligence ... that investigated intelligence abuses 15 years ago, I received chilling documentation on the dangers and disastrous effects of American covert activities.

I oppose the destabilization of foreign governments through the actions of covert operatives.... I oppose so-called guerrilla movements operating under the rubric of "freedom fighters," whose aim is to overthrow foreign nations on behalf of the American people, using American tax dollars, without the knowledge of the American people."
-Ronald V. Dellums
Representative of California 1971-1998

And why would I feel pathetic. My country has the highest standard of living in the world. Nobody tries to kill me when I go abroad. I don't have to worry about getting sick and dying because I can't pay my medical bills. We're rich in natural resources of which you're almost depleted, fresh water, timber and oil.
We've paid for our freedom in blood too entering both world wars before the US not because we were attacked but because it was the right thing to do. And you guys imprison more of your own citizens than any other nation on earth including China which has 5 times your population. Think about that. And that of those people in prison over 50% of them are black but black people only make up about 12% of your population. Yeah, I'm feelin' real pathetic about my country.

You say something critical about the US and you guys assume we're either jelous or we hate you. I like the States a lot, I've spent half my life there. I like the people particularly but your politics leaves a lot to be answered for. And it's not just how it affects the world but your own people. Hundreds of thousands of your young men died in south east asia in war like a football game was sponsored by US corporations and made some people very rich. People who invested in Bell helicopters as an example.

But hey maybe this is just me being pathetic.

excuse you. (none / 0) (#67)
by nathan on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 04:59:22 AM PST
I am not, nor have I ever been an American. How obnoxious of you to assume you could deduce my nationality from a five-line-long post.

Let's look at what I said again. American foreign policy is geopolitical rather than moral. In other words, it is primarily determined with regard to geopolitical considerations.[1] I didn't set up a dichotomy of essentials, Mr. Abelard. It was a purely pragmatic distinction of degree. But thanks for assuming I'm an idiot and I can't tell the difference.

'America' sellin' guns ta' warlords.

Thanks for giving me a hick accent in your response. For what it's worth, I would not be ashamed of it if it were my accent, although it's not; but for you to imply that people who drop their gees are ignorant is disgustingly conceited of you. In any case, America (and plenty of other countries, like the Czech Republic and Israel) sells plenty of guns to warlords. What's false about that statement?

It's quite cute that you shoot at my geopolitics line and then flay the USA for 'destabilizing foreign governments.' What exactly do you think geopolitics is? I suppose you believe that the USSR and the PRC are very interested in indigenous self-determination; they're real paragons of cultural sensitivity. The USA is no dirtier than any other country that's ever played the game. Some day, you should put down the Chomsky and read what sorts of things the Romans did to keep the subject peoples divided in occupied countries.

It's never good to walk into a debate assuming your opponent is stupid. You assumed me to be ignorant because an American; uninformed in pissant left-wing conspiracy theory; and a hardened jingoist. Here's a newsflash. I'm familiar with your sources and arguments. I don't disagree with you because I'm stupid. I disagree because I think you're just plain wrong. Go peddle your papers, you jerk.

[1] Maybe you would have understood it better if I'd said 'hegemonistic geopolitics.' Happy now?

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

It doesn't change anything. (none / 0) (#73)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 02:55:49 PM PST
I didn't assume you were an idiot because of your nationality or your politics. I assumed you you were an idiot based on the vaugeness and inconsistency in your argument. And whether or not you think it's a 'purely pragmatic distinctions of degree' doesn't change the fact that it is an erroneous stateman.

"It's quite cute that you shoot at my geopolitics line and then flay the USA for 'destabilizing foreign governments.' What exactly do you think geopolitics is?"

You should apply for a job at the UN and put that on your resume. So you believe that the aim of geopolitcs is to destabilize foreign governments.... you really are an idiot.

How the hell do the Romans fit into this. You just seem to come up with stuff out of nowhere. And who was talking about the USSR? I never included them in my argument.
And do you honestly believe that just because Isreal and the Czech Republic sell weapons it justifies the US selling weapons and providing financial aid to overthrow governments. What game are you talking about? People are being murdered by their own governments, it's not a game.

Why do you insist on calling governments and organizations that buy weapons 'Warlords'. Is that the new word for the millenium. I remember when it was 'freedom fighter', how things change. A little less CNN for you, maybe.

So you don't disagree with me because your stupid you disagree with me because I'm just plain wrong. WOW. Now isn't that something. That's one hell of a compelling argument you got there. I'll admit it, I've been beaten by a superior intellect. Don't bother trying to prove me wrong, just say it. It's like magic.

I think I'm finished with this thread.

learn to read. (none / 0) (#74)
by nathan on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 04:01:53 PM PST
So you believe that the aim of geopolitcs is to destabilize foreign governments.... you really are an idiot.

Destabilizing foreign governments is a geopolitical act, Noam. I didn't write that it was the only such act. You claim that I claimed it, but I never have made that claim.

As you have failed to so much as correctly parse my clearly-written posts, I don't see any point in screaming at you. I gracefully withdraw; the thread's all yours.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Gah!! (none / 0) (#61)
by hauntedattics on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 06:15:37 PM PST
OK, I'm only going to say this once. The singular possessive neuter pronoun is its. Its, as in, "Your government murdered its own citizens at Kent State." "It's" is a contraction of "it is" or "it has." And before you say that this grammar rule doesn't make any sense, consider all the other possessive pronouns. No apostrophes there! Dear God, don't make me write an uptight, pedantic diary entry about this!

I say this, dear AR, because as soon as I saw your misuse of the English language, I stopped concentrating on the content in your post and waited with dread for your next possessive "it's." I'll try to go back and read what you had to say, but I warn you that it'll be difficult not to grind my teeth.

All you other apostrophe abusers, consider yourself warned.


hmm (none / 0) (#62)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 09:06:29 PM PST
As a 4th year English major, I have to agree (the grammar rule makes perfect sense to any with skill in the language), although it really is not that hard to grasp the author's intended point.


Oh dear (none / 0) (#66)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 04:53:14 AM PST
You know you've lost an argument when you have to resort to grammatical nitpicking...

Pardon??? (none / 0) (#70)
by hauntedattics on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 07:56:09 AM PST
I'm still trying to figure out how I lost an argument when I haven't even made one yet. My point in my post was that the grammatical errors made in the AR's post (errors that happen to be my own personal bugbear) obscured my own ability to read and analyze the content. For all you know, I could agree with every point the post-er was making.

Your whole 'win/lose' obsession is pretty amusing as well. I don't post to Adequacy to 'win' arguments, I post because I want to enter into a discussion with others. I won't change others' opinions and they probably won't affect mine, so show me where the winning and losing comes into it.

Fair enough, but... (none / 0) (#75)
by budlite on Wed Jan 16th, 2002 at 01:35:01 PM PST
The impression I get is that on these threads move away from being simple discussions (if they started that way) and turn into childish slanging matches, with nitpicking posts in the style of yours becoming more and more prevalent. The general style of writing is argumentative, and most of the stories I read seem to be written in such a way as specifically to provoke arguments and flames (see the Linux Zealot "series" to get an idea of what I mean).

in other words (none / 0) (#78)
by nathan on Wed Jan 16th, 2002 at 06:21:37 PM PST
"You were right, but I'm going to pretend that it doesn't matter."

That doesn't cut it. Apologize properly. Admit you were wrong, and accept hauntedattic's just criticism.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

What (none / 0) (#69)
by Right Hand Man on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 05:26:21 AM PST
First you claim that the US government is evil, which I do not deny, then you claim that I shouldn't own a gun. Your brain is obviously addled by something, most likely drugs.

The National Guard is no more a militia than a quilting club is. Not that it matters, because the Second Amendment recognizes a right 'of the people', not 'of the collective', although some courts have seen fit to subvert that.

As for the Kennedy assassination, it illustrates the very reason WHY common citizens should have guns. Even with all of the security and such a single Marine with a rifle was able to change the face of a nation, despite the fact that the anti-gun folks would like you to believe that the government is so overwhelmingly powerful that a common arm has no use against it. Many before and since have made similar contributions, Timothy McVeigh and my friend Eric Rudolph are two contemporary examples, although they used bombs, the central idea is still the same.

"Keep your bible open and your powder dry."

HI, (none / 0) (#68)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 05:07:03 AM PST
Being that I live dowtown in a USian city with a population of over 6 million people, and I have never heard of such a thing, I feel compelled to ask:
What the hell's a taser?
(I know what a gun is, though I've never seen one outside of a glass case)
--Anonymous Reader #24601

Give me a break... (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 12:11:41 AM PST
You pick a third rate card that even in the US most people don't use, take it to a foreign country and get pissed off because you can't use it? How lame is that?

Look - most people in Canada use debit and credit cards all the time and most retailors are wired for it. We were using them long before they were widely used in the States because unlike the US - where it's a sin against God for anyone to actually cooperate with anyone else, we established a national ATM network in which all banks participate.

So unlike having to worry about which bank I use and whether or not that ATM or store will support it, I just go anywhere and use my card.

Apparently, somehow, you managed to waltz in with an impossibly unusable set of cards and then assumed everyone else is to blame.

How typically American.

Now, you want to talk useless - try buying something on the Web from Canada. If they actually sell and ship outside Fortress USA (and remember that NAFTA thing - wow, has that helped), then the odds are that your Visa or Mastercard won't work because the American credit card system is a quiltwork of little credit zones which can't handle cards from outside their zone.

Sorry, this article is a classic 'Ugly American' prose - a wonderful example of exactly why American's aren't highly appreciated unless they're buying friendships.

My advice - stay at home and enjoy your... well culture, if that's what you call it.

Any sense of humor? (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 09:35:53 PM PST
As a Canadian (from Victoria, no less), I feel it my duty to remind all readers that there is such a thing as a Canadian with a sense of humor. Must I remind you that many great comedians hail from the Great White North?
Personally, I found the writing to be an excellent satire and thoroughly enjoyable.
Good job.
Now if only we could get such quality work from the rest of the world, especially those damned Sweedians. ;)

No Kidding (none / 0) (#63)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 09:26:10 PM PST
Most of these articles on this site are simply flamebait to get all the easily riled people all angry; all the articles really quite hilarious if you take a step back and look at all of them. It's kind of like prodding two opposing sides with a sharp, pointy stick, then jumping out of the way to let them go at it while the rest of us sit back, laugh, and enjoy the show. As someone from Victoria, I'd like to congratulate the author on a well written (I laughed my ass off when you called this place a "Frozen Socialist Wasteland") piece of reading.

- N

er (none / 0) (#64)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 09:28:07 PM PST
A small correction in the first sentence:

"All the articles *are* really quite hilarious"

I always leave stuff out when I type fast :)

- N

Larger breasts? (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 02:12:02 PM PST
Pamela Anderson Lee in canadian, dolt

Idiot. (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 07:38:39 PM PST
Pamela didn't have an adequate physique until she moved to America and bought a pair of American breasts from an American plastic surgeon.

Dropout rates, cont.d (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 02:18:24 PM PST

Patriotic USians (none / 0) (#50)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 02:41:26 AM PST
Do you guys jackoff at the site of your own flag? You really must love your country so much that dissing other countries is necessary to boost your modest egos. Your movies prove it. I guess everyone over there is a supermodel and business bigshot, and your country provides ethnic equallity and opportunity to all classes. For sure "eh".

Eat a dick trailer trash USian.
Your friend from Cana-"fuckin"-da.

A little tarnish for the post-vacation glow... (none / 0) (#53)
by chloedancer on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 07:19:55 AM PST
It seems that Victoria, BC is currently experiencing an outbreak of necrotizing fasciitis; Group A streptococcus is mentioned specifically.

Makes me wonder if maybe I'd be better off not listening to the news first thing in the morning...

oh man (none / 0) (#54)
by nathan on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 07:31:44 AM PST
See what happens when you let a couple of Americans in? We're gonna have to fumigate the country again.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Spurious correlation (none / 0) (#55)
by chloedancer on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 09:55:15 AM PST
I think, instead, that maybe that adorable little marmoset was attempting to warn us; that its daring escape might have been motivated by its concern for our well-being as non-native compatriots brings a tear to my eye, really. (Besides, the onset of the outbreak occurred prior to our arrival, further emphasizing the risks associated with travel in Third World environments.)

I'm wondering if the next prudent measure would be to actually quarantine the island? We're just so lucky to have escaped in time...

Dearest Chloedancer (none / 0) (#56)
by Peter Johnson on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 10:04:09 AM PST
Fear not, I would have protected you from the vile plauge of flesh eating bacteria. The whole time I was carrying a microscopic submarine with a minaturized surgical team onboard.

In the event of a medical emergency, it would have been injected into your blood stream, but shortly afterwards, the brave doctors would realize that they have a saboteur on board.
Are you adequate?

Ahem... (none / 0) (#71)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 11:38:45 AM PST
Isn't it British Colombia? And what does it have to do with Canada?

Ahem. (none / 0) (#72)
by flarners on Tue Jan 15th, 2002 at 12:02:46 PM PST
Isn't it British Colombia?
And what does it have to do with Canada?
Well, British Columbia is a province in Canada, for one thing.
I told everyone we should have a witch-hunt, but they wanted to have a good old-fashioned book burning instead

Dumbasses (none / 0) (#79)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 17th, 2002 at 10:09:43 AM PST
ho about this. YOU ARE SOOOO FUCKING IGNORANT!!!!. YOU FOR SOME REASON THINK THAT CANADIANS ARE ILLITERATE!!??? CANADA HAS THE HIGHEST LITERACY RATE ON EATH. At least we aren't a country of fat, inbred, rednecks who are so fucking dumb that you have to resort to causeing the "Brain Drain" which has plauged canadas intelectual population (which is most of us). Could it be that you need to have such big bras is because your women are fat asses? I think so. I don't pretend to be french, or british. by going to vancouver you have not seen canada AT ALL. Could it be that the reason that such a vast area of our country is forested is because we don't agree with destroying every natural resource for progress. Canada has a fine econamy. An what the hell is this about the frozen ghettos of the north? You obviously havn't compared them to your gehttos. The reason that you didn't see many negro people in canada is because canada never went to africa and forced them against thier will into boats and into slavary. If a negro person cam to canada it was because of thier own free will. And what the hell is this about the 51st state? Why would we want to be part of the USA? Why would we want to be dragged down to your sick level? Canada is not a communist country. We are free, we do not opress certain racial groups (more recently muslims) as you do. We pronounce words as the british do. That is not because we are british wannabees it is because it is right. WHO DO YOU THINK INVENTED THE FUKCING LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!! It is colour NOT colour. Zed Not Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Your stupid queers why don't you just shut the fuck up and leave us alone. I do not envy you

yuch (none / 0) (#80)
by nathan on Thu Jan 17th, 2002 at 12:34:37 PM PST
As Trotsky said, "worse is better." That is, in order to discredit something, rather than attack it, assume its characteristics and exaggerate them as obnoxiously as possible. By supporting the worst excesses of capitalism, the Trotskyist attempts to bring about its overthrow; by acting like a monstrous parody of an anti-American Canadian patriot, this AR attempts to discredit Canada and bring about its annexation.

You belligerent Yankee fuck!

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

literacy rate (none / 0) (#81)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 17th, 2002 at 04:29:48 PM PST
Canadians have a 66% literacy rate. That means 1 in 3 Canadians can't read.

Iceland probably has the highest literacy rate per country at nearly 100%.

I didn't read the rest of your post because you didn't use white space.

you amuse me, pitiful american (none / 0) (#83)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jan 18th, 2002 at 12:50:06 AM PST
I'll be honest and tell you that I didn't read most of this tripe. What can I say? It got boring after the first couple paragraphs.
I clicked on a few of the gratuitous links near the top of the article; either the links didn't work or they were boring. I notice that the author didn't bother to put any links after the first few paragraphs -- as though expecting the reader would stop reading there.

I am amused by the lengths some 'USians' will go to just to prove how much better they are than other people. If you are feeling that insecure you might want to click on one of those ubiquitous 'enlarge your penis' ads.
The most surprising thing though, was the fact that a 'USian' was even aware that there are other contries on Earth. And all this time I was under the impression that you weren't that well educated.


Uh-huh. (none / 0) (#84)
by hauntedattics on Fri Jan 18th, 2002 at 11:41:01 AM PST
And all this time I was under the impression that you weren't that well educated.

We aren't well educated. Any of us. We all sit around, fat and dumb, in our trailer homes and watch Jerry Springer all day. All of those bright, young students at all the top universities in the U.S. are in fact well-trained plants from other countries. It's a giant marketing scheme to make us look better.

Are there really other countries on this planet? Wow, that's amazing. I never learned any geography at all. Of course, everyone else in the world must be so smart and know where every other country is located.

I could continue with this stereotype indefinitely, but I'm afraid you might start to take it seriously. You know, dear AR, where you can stick your prejudiced overgeneralizations.

U. S. A. (none / 0) (#85)
by nathan on Fri Jan 18th, 2002 at 11:55:50 AM PST
The U. S. A. is by far the leading nation in the world today. While not necessarily supreme as any particular field it is, in the aggregate, the most powerful, influential country in the world.

Draw your own conclusions about how people are likely to react to that.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

sorry, what? (none / 0) (#87)
by iconoclast on Fri Jan 18th, 2002 at 03:35:32 PM PST
> I could continue with this stereotype indefinitely, but I'm afraid you might start to take it seriously. You know, dear AR, where you can stick your prejudiced overgeneralizations

Seeing as this 'article' is just a list of 'prejudiced overgeneralizations', how could you expect a serious response?

Jerry Springer and trailer parks? Yeah, that's pretty much how I see the US too.

Kinda... (none / 0) (#88)
by budlite on Sat Jan 19th, 2002 at 02:03:44 PM PST
I agree. I suppose sometimes I might be persuaded to concede that my view of the US is somewhat narrow-minded, but what I read on this site doesn't exactly go a long way (if any way) to dispelling the stereotypes.

hmmmm (none / 0) (#90)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jan 19th, 2002 at 02:33:24 PM PST
why does the US believe that it is the most prominant nation on earth. Summed up this kinda insecurities make me sick. You insult every other nation on the face of this planet and promote yourself while at the same time hiding your many many many flaws. I admit that there is no nation on earth which doesn't have its flaws but i can also admit that the US if more flawed than the average country. So far you have picked pretty big losers for your presidents (Bush is a figurehead and Clinton is a liar, a moron and horny bastart). You somehow managed to invent a voting scheme by Americans, for Americans which Americans couldn't understand. There is even a comedy TV show in Canada called "Talking to Americans" which actually exploits and laughs at your complete idiocy. They go around and get "Smart Americans" (kind of an oxymoron) to discuss issues related to other countries which are complete bullshit for example many Americans begged Canada to stop the Saskatchewan seal hunt, congradulated them on getting thier first kilometer of paved road, and urged them to switch to the 24 hour clock (we have been on the 20 hour clock for ever you see). They interviewed everyone from Al Gore to Harvard students and Harvard professers. They all made complete idiots out of themselves. The only reason that the United States produces so many top university students is because of volume. The vast majority of Americans are complete morons however if you throw everything at the wall something sooner or later will stick. America has a huge population. Although a larger precentage of them are complete morons a few lucky ones are smart. There are more smart people in the United States because there are more people. Even though other countries have more smart people per million America ignores that fact and concentrates on quantity rather than quality.

Exactly (none / 0) (#91)
by budlite on Sat Jan 19th, 2002 at 02:52:08 PM PST
It can't be a coincidence that there are so many USian students here in the UK. I've heard it said many times that USian colleges and univiersities generally just aren't up to the standards of their British and other European counterparts by both foreigners to the US, AND USian citizens.

oddly enough (none / 0) (#92)
by nathan on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 09:02:22 AM PST
I am not an American, but I completed my undergraduate degree in the USA. I found my American university to be just peachy.

The liberalist academic disease infesting American universities is certainly upsetting. It's clear that it originated in Frogce, though, and it's certainly spread to the UK. You'll never convince me that Blairism is the product of rigourous, old-fashioned thinking (and a healthy diet of Xenophon.)

Maybe Americans are studying your washed-up country in order to learn how not to manage their internal politics. And before you argue, I have one simple word for you: Liverpool.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Adequacy isnt all "Made in the USA"(tm) (none / 0) (#94)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 01:16:38 PM PST
A fair few of the editors (I could list them, but that would require actual thought and effort which I cant be bothered expending just for your part) are from the UK. There may even be editors from other countries aswell.

Like so many places on the net, this place is a melting pot of ideas from people all over the world that speak English. It just so happens that a lot of people on the net who speak English are American. Some arent, but agree with the Americans. Deal with it.

As for Nathan's comment on Scouseland further down this thread, I happen to think its quite a wonderful and astonishing place. Probably for exactly the same reasons he thinks its a wasteland. Oh well =)

I don't deny that (none / 0) (#95)
by budlite on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 03:07:35 PM PST
I don't make the assumption that all the people running and using are USian, it's just that a significant number of the posts and comments that have really annoyed me have been made by USians, and even though I can't take to represent a cross-section of all USian society, what I've read from USians here really makes me feel that if all USians held those same views then the world would be in dead trouble, the US being as influential on world affairs as it is.

yes but (none / 0) (#96)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 04:19:42 PM PST
I am not making that assumtion. However the person who wrote this artical sure is, also a number of the articals on here are clearly written by americans

gasp! (none / 0) (#99)
by nathan on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 07:17:03 PM PST
a number of the articals on here are clearly written by americans

It's a scandal!

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Scandal? What scandal? (none / 0) (#101)
by iconoclast on Mon Jan 21st, 2002 at 03:09:56 AM PST
Nah, I don't think it's any sort of scandal. Someone would have to organize the scandal, and that would probably take some intelligence -- and we all know americans are sorely lacking in that department.

Hrm (none / 0) (#102)
by budlite on Mon Jan 21st, 2002 at 07:29:40 AM PST
I'm tempted to agree, but the last thing I want to see is for this thread and most others degrade into base slanging matches...oh, wait, half of them already have...

thank you (none / 0) (#103)
by nathan on Mon Jan 21st, 2002 at 07:51:59 AM PST
...for that wonderful satire against the folly of anti-Americans.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Canajun, eh? (none / 0) (#86)
by jameslouder on Fri Jan 18th, 2002 at 02:18:51 PM PST
You think you're pretty clever,eh? but I got your number, ferrrr shure -- you're a CANADIAN! You've got to be. No one but a born and bred Canadian could so expertly run down this country -- which, to the amazement of our hyper-patriotic American friends, is our national pastime. More people do it than watch hockey, he? Believe it or not, eh?though some do both at once by running down the Canadian teams. (I'm speaking of English Canada, eh? In Quebec people spend their energy being super-patriotic and ultra-proud about a country that doesn't even exist.)

Pull your head out of your ass (5.00 / 1) (#89)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jan 19th, 2002 at 02:21:39 PM PST
Whoever wrote this article is perhaps the most ignorant fuck i have ever heard of. Canada is no where close to being communist. Despite what you may think, Canadians are not stupid, igloo-making yokels who all say "eh" and worship the mighty US.I find these comments particularly insulting coming from Utah, which is one of the most ass-backward states I have ever been to, and I have been to about half of them. The reason that you didn't see many black or hispanic people in Victoria is that there are way fewer of them in Canada in general. Unlike you, we did not keep slaves for 200 odd years. The idea that only rich people get health care is asinine as well. That would eb the US you are referring to, where poor people get jack shit. Maybe you should pull you jack-booted foot out of your fascist ass and fucking get a clue about what you re talking about before you write something. There are a lot of great people in the US, but it's ignorant fucks like the author of this article that make people in other countries dislike Americans.

yeah! (none / 0) (#97)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 04:23:27 PM PST
yeah! i completely agree with you

Hehe, sweet (none / 0) (#105)
by Zeero on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 12:04:59 PM PST
This is hilarious!!! Even more hilarious than the one where Gibbons thinks his sons is a hacker. If I had an award ceremony for best humor site, this would win straight out!!!

U SUCK (none / 0) (#106)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:16:30 PM PST

American T.P. (none / 0) (#104)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 01:27:11 AM PST
Oh my god. The best (Canadian) invention since sliced bread. I just bought a case load of toilet paper printed with the American flags on each square. I purposely make myself go to the bathroom several times a day now, just for the sheer pleasure of wiping my ass with it. My dogg even learned to wipe his own ass because of the new print. What magic these Americans inspire. Watch out for this one on the TSE, I see great potential.


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