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Poll
Victor
Yoshi 50%
timmath 50%

Votes: 30

 My Chat With Tim Mathews

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Jan 22, 2002
 Comments:
Well, much to my dismay, and at a risk to my personal safety, I agreed to a chat with Tim Mathews, who you may know if you've been following this thread.
diaries

More diaries by Yoshi
AOL in Negotiations to Buy Red Hat
Major Linux Bug Discovered... 16 Months Later
Who's Copying Whom?
Overview of Instant Messaging Applications
Cisco's SecurityThreat
Sun's Ulterior Motives
This Has Gone Too Far
I logged on to the Slashnet server with my mIRC application and before long, I got a "private message" from Tim Mathews, referred to from now on as timmat. The log posted below is in its entirety, for the betterment of the community.


Session Start: Tue Jan 22 20:42:08 2002
[8:42:08 PM] Session Ident: timmat (~adenied@pcp229287pcs.catonv01.md.comcast.net)
[8:42:08 PM] <timmat> hi, are you Yoshi from adequacy?
[8:42:19 PM] <Yoshi> Indeed so
[8:42:37 PM] <timmat> ah, well I'd be Tim, the one posting against you
[8:42:49 PM] <Yoshi> ah, so you are the confused one
[8:42:57 PM] <Yoshi> howdy
[8:43:08 PM] <timmat> howdy
[8:43:18 PM] <timmat> we can start with being confused, ok.
[8:43:39 PM] <timmat> can you give me some links referring to ASP?
[8:44:09 PM] <timmat> not MS's ASP, but the assembled site pages you refer too
[8:44:18 PM] <Yoshi> do you want me to do all of your work for you so you can go back to your web development company with the newfound ASP knowledge that you didn't even work for?
[8:44:23 PM] <Yoshi> come on, you're better than that
[8:44:50 PM] <timmat> no, actually i don't work for anyone, I just read some web publishing mags and do a little work on my own site
[8:44:51 PM] <Yoshi> you ought to join us in #adequacy however..
[8:44:58 PM] <timmat> mm'k
[8:52:10 PM] <timmat> well, i seem to have been kicked by bc, so shall we continue here?
[8:52:28 PM] <Yoshi> sounds good
[8:52:41 PM] <Yoshi> memory paging isn't a secret now that AMD stole it from Intel
[8:53:01 PM] <timmat> it never was a secret, and intel didn't invent it
[8:53:38 PM] <Yoshi> a secret, perhaps not, but a revolutionary idea, indeed it was
[8:53:47 PM] <Yoshi> because only Intel forsaw the need for web pages >4kb large
[8:53:59 PM] <Yoshi> it was still the hayday of the web, only they saw the future
[8:54:03 PM] <timmat> ok, can you explain to me how as you see it, memory paging works?
[8:54:29 PM] <timmat> er, how memory paging works? my mind works faster than my hands
[8:55:29 PM] <timmat> the first intel chip with paging was the 80386, which was invented around 1987, well before the NSF was allowing just anyone on the internet
[8:55:55 PM] <Yoshi> It's quite simple, really. The chip helps calculate all of the little A HREF tags and URLs, but caps out at 4KB before the pentium, so the computer would freeze
[8:56:36 PM] <Yoshi> not just any support for pages, but pages as large as 4Mb
[8:58:25 PM] <timmat> no, what reads them is the web browser, netscape, internet explorer, opera, etc
[8:58:52 PM] <Yoshi> yeah, but the processor helps them out, much in the same way that MMX extensions help out DirectX
[8:58:53 PM] <timmat> the web browser runs on top of the OS, which in turn is run on the CPU
[8:59:45 PM] <timmat> directX takes advantage of special processor op. codes, html doesn't in anyway use any special built in functions
[9:00:50 PM] <Yoshi> it doesn't, but the processor detects it and aids its speed anyway, much like ATI aids Quake 3
[9:00:57 PM] <timmat> you really should read some books on programming theory, if you don't trust the linux people, get SAM's Teach Yourself Visual C++ in 21 days.
[9:01:44 PM] <Yoshi> I'll consult the MSDN documentation which is far more thorough
[9:02:26 PM] <timmat> most likey it is.
[9:05:19 PM] <timmat> also, why won't you believe that netscape invented JavaScript. Its on their developer page, its on Sun's Java FAQ page, its in the first chapter of every book i've ever seen about JavaScript
[9:05:47 PM] <timmat> just admit that you made a mistake about MS inventing it, and we can move on from that
[9:06:12 PM] <Yoshi> that's absurd, they like to take the credit for it, but Microsoft developed it and released it first in Internet Explorer. At that time, Netscape had a much larger market share, so its first large exposure was when Netscape licensed the APIs from Microsoft.
[9:07:53 PM] <timmat> can you show me that on microsoft's website, if netscape is indeed lying, MS would certainly be upset about it
[9:08:48 PM] <Yoshi> there are plenty of times other companies steal Microsoft's inventions and take credit for it, Microsoft has grown rather apathetic to it now since appropriate credit isn't necessary as long as they have the superior product.
[9:09:30 PM] <timmat> i keep giving you proof of my points, you haven't given any in support of your's, you skirt around the issue, saying i should do my own research, or my links will steal your credit card number
[9:09:56 PM] <timmat> if windows was as secure as you claim, you wouldn't worry about some rouge website stealling your CC info
[9:10:06 PM] <Yoshi> I have seen none too few times where other innocent Microsoft defenders were defrauded by the open source zealots
[9:10:45 PM] <timmat> give me an example, please one example of each of your points, I'll concede the argument to you and it will be done with
[9:11:21 PM] <Yoshi> I've already explained my points thoroughly and provided irrefutable knowledge to back it up
[9:13:19 PM] <timmat> What knowledge? Your own? You have given me nothing backing up your paging theory, or anything about your version of ASP, or this supposed "V-chip" in modems, or how linux violates the DMCA, or any of that
[9:14:56 PM] <Yoshi> Processor memory paging has been common knowledge since the early 90s, ASP was put into place to compensate for AMD's deficiencies, and everyone knows about v-chips and Linux's overriding of them to hide critical IP token information
[9:15:48 PM] <timmat> dammit! everyone? who? show me a website, refer me to some document, a court order, a legal ruling, something! anything?
[9:16:14 PM] <timmat> I'm on linux and I'm not hiding a damn thing, you can ping me if you want and see for yourself
[9:17:34 PM] <timmat> and what of the other free, open source OS's such as BSD, plan9, inferno, etc. mind you plan9 and inferno were both developed at lucent.
[9:17:40 PM] <Yoshi> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=comments;sid=2001/12/19/21302/725;cid=62#62
[9:17:58 PM] <Yoshi> so long as they disable the V-chip, they're illegal and should be exterminated
[9:20:31 PM] <timmat> what you've given is a post from someone who shares your views. can you show me a link on MS's website about V-chips or maybe on 3com's website?
[9:20:45 PM] <timmat> btw, where do you get all your info?
[9:21:04 PM] <Yoshi> PC magazines
[9:21:46 PM] <timmat> such as?
[9:22:03 PM] <timmat> I know damned well PC magazine wouldn't publish that.
[9:22:20 PM] <Yoshi> well I've got PC Magazine and PC World on my desk now
[9:22:23 PM] <Yoshi> ever read John C. Dvorak?
[9:22:25 PM] <timmat> http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/
[9:22:33 PM] <timmat> i think you should go there and read that
[9:23:03 PM] <timmat> the government uses linux, they have released open source code that anyone can download and read, modify, etc.
[9:23:18 PM] <timmat> does this make the NSA a subversive terrorist organization?
[9:23:19 PM] <Yoshi> thanks to Bill Clinton and all of the other Communism-embracing liberals
[9:23:52 PM] <timmat> communism is about as far from liberalism as you can get
[9:23:55 PM] <Yoshi> would any American-loving patriot allow Usama to prosper in his caves for eight years without doing anything to stop them? Of course I would
[9:23:59 PM] <Yoshi> tell that to Robert Reich
[9:26:39 PM] <timmat> you see, communism is all about acting as a group, being one and sharing, not keeping anything for yourself. Liberalism on the otherhand is oriented towards the individual, the primary tenant of liberalism is to not limit anyones rights unless they infringe on a higher right of someone else.
[9:27:37 PM] <Yoshi> hmm, both definitions fit the GNU project
[9:28:51 PM] <timmat> what exactly is wrong with the GNU project? It doesn't prevent you from selling GNU/Linux, infact there are a lot of linux distros out there that cost several thousand
[9:29:31 PM] <Yoshi> precisely its motto to bring communism into the American mainstream
[9:31:59 PM] <timmat> where are you getting this?
[9:32:26 PM] <Yoshi> straight from the goals of RMS's page
[9:33:18 PM] <Yoshi> here's another article about RMS you should read: http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/29/95736/251
[9:33:37 PM] <timmat> RMS is a member of the ACLU. Is that a communist organization?
[9:33:46 PM] <Yoshi> absolutely
[9:34:00 PM] <Yoshi> it's as communist as it gets
[9:36:01 PM] <timmat> and how is offering linux for free violating any copy protection? the point of linux was and continues to be the fact that it is a free OS
[9:36:20 PM] <timmat> It was *meant* to be copyied
[9:36:48 PM] <Yoshi> that's not the issue, the issue is Linux's ability to override a user's internal V-Chip in their modem so they can launch their DOS attacks against unsuspecting websites
[9:37:28 PM] <timmat> You do realize that you can launch a DoS attack from a windows machine just as easily?
[9:37:51 PM] <timmat> in fact probably easier since the programming has already been done for you
[9:38:06 PM] <Yoshi> that's because Windows has DOS built into it. You can still tracert where they come from with windows DOS programs, but with Linux DOS programs, you can't because the V-Chip is gone
[9:38:56 PM] <timmat> DOS is an OS, Disk Operating System. DoS is a cheap internet hack, Denial of Service, there is a huge difference.
[9:39:31 PM] <timmat> if i ping you and you're running a decent firewall you can see it, if you'd like i'll demonstrate
[9:40:00 PM] <Yoshi> that's quite okay, I am confident you already hacked your V-Chip off and would cause my computer to start dialing into Yahoo or something
[9:40:38 PM] <timmat> you can't dial into Yahoo! Dammit, you're being stubborn and you know it.
[9:41:12 PM] <timmat> There isn't a damned V-Chip in my T-1 DSU/CSU.
[9:41:42 PM] <Yoshi> much in the same way that there isn't a serial number on my pentium 3
[9:41:47 PM] <Yoshi> you illegally disabled it, though
[9:41:49 PM] <timmat> A V-Chip is a little device in TV's that allowed parents to block certain channels that they shouldn't have signed up for in the first place
[9:42:01 PM] <Yoshi> now you're just making stuff up
[9:42:11 PM] <timmat> I'm making stuff up?
[9:42:33 PM] <timmat> http://www.fcc.gov/vchip/
[9:42:45 PM] <timmat> there's the FCC's V-Chip website
[9:43:21 PM] <Yoshi> so I'll click on that website link and be redirected to the FCC website with your IP token information embedded with your 'ping'?
[9:43:29 PM] <Yoshi> thus, I am the one to get the blame for hacking my modem's vchip
[9:44:07 PM] <timmat> no, you won't. really. ping is a program used to see if a network route is up, you have it on your computer
[9:44:24 PM] <timmat> and you're not going to hack anything, because there isn't anything there to be hacked
[9:45:05 PM] <Yoshi> I wouldn't be the type to do that anyway. I'm sure your ping program left your IP token on my v-chip so it's easily detectable by the FCC when I go to their website though
[9:45:30 PM] <timmat> i never pinged you, you said not to and I didn't
[9:46:00 PM] <Yoshi> there's no way I can be confident
[9:46:44 PM] <timmat> i guess not, but then you could have a little faith in your fellow citizen, no?
[9:47:27 PM] <Yoshi> well that pretty much sums it up, I can never be sure what lengths the linix zealots go to to evade and cover their own tracks
[9:47:53 PM] <Yoshi> for all I know, you could have been using DOS programs against amazon and are planning on turning me into the FCC with your pings
[9:49:02 PM] <timmat> don't you understand how ping works?
[9:49:19 PM] <timmat> or how the amazon people would track down any attack?
[9:49:43 PM] <Yoshi> well they obviously couldn't if you disable the V-chip in your modem
[9:50:19 PM] <Yoshi> but by transferring that information to me, clearly I would be in the line of offense by the FCC and Amazon lawyers when I am nothing more than a law abiding Windows user
[9:51:26 PM] <timmat> yes they could. the closest thing i can figure to what your talking about is the MAC address of ethernet cards. That is a permenant unique number that cannot be changed or overriden. if it is, you can connet to any network because no other computer knows how to talk to you
[9:52:17 PM] <Yoshi> no, I have a PC, all of which utilize the V-chip technology
[9:52:46 PM] <timmat> and there isn't a mac address in dialup modems because they create a direct point-to-point connection with your ISP and then they assign you an IP for the duration of your being online, and the computer that you connect to at the ISP has a mac address that you likewise borrow for the interim that you are online
[9:53:19 PM] <timmat> i have a PC as well, it just happens to run linux, and its not overriding anything
[9:54:05 PM] <Yoshi> no kidding, that works all well and good for us dialup users running Windows machines without the competing Macintosh address technology, the V-chip provides crucial data to aid the FBI in locating hackers
[9:54:47 PM] <Yoshi> but Linux disables this technology and thus allows hackers to go untraced by the feds
[9:55:03 PM] <timmat> it has nothing to do with a macintosh, the MAC stands for media access control
[9:55:22 PM] <timmat> network cards had that long before the machintosh computer existed
[9:55:35 PM] <timmat> the fbi runs linux
[9:55:39 PM] <Yoshi> I don't have the time to sit here and read your lies
[9:55:45 PM] <timmat> what lies?
[9:56:09 PM] <Yoshi> all of your Macintosh address balogna
[9:56:48 PM] <timmat> ITS NOT A MACINTOSH ADDRESS
[9:57:18 PM] <timmat> http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/MAC_address.html
[9:57:21 PM] <timmat> look there
[9:57:36 PM] <timmat> oh, wait. you won't follow the links i give you
[9:57:49 PM] <Yoshi> if you're going to get hostile, I think it's time for our discussion to come to an end. I tried to tolerate and debate your lies as much as I can, but you've been making up terminology and technology the whole way through, it's getting frustrating
[9:58:05 PM] <timmat> i'm not making anything up
[9:58:23 PM] <timmat> please feel free to do a search on yahoo or google for any of the terms i have used
[9:58:54 PM] <timmat> if you don't trust my links, OK, but maybe you'll feel safe getting them from a search engine?
[9:58:56 PM] <Yoshi> you feel really confident that I'd find the results, you didn't scam one of the sites up to the top of the list, did you?
[9:59:33 PM] <timmat> i apologize for yelling, and no i didn't
[9:59:48 PM] <timmat> i honestly wouldn't know where to start to do something like that
[10:00:35 PM] <Yoshi> I understand completely
[10:02:16 PM] <Yoshi> I've got to leave now, but I enjoyed our little conversation and I hope I taught you a little bit that will come in handy for your web development business
[10:02:45 PM] <timmat> I still don't know what assembled site pages are
[10:03:31 PM] <Yoshi> would you object to posting a portion of this log for public viewing, in case you feel others may benefit from this debate between my facts and your perpetuated myths?
[10:04:08 PM] <timmat> post all you want, i hopw you will allow me to print it and show it to some of the sys admins i know?
[10:04:18 PM] <timmat> and maybe a few comp sci teachers.
[10:04:56 PM] <Yoshi> absolutely, but feel free to replace my name with yours if you don't want to be credited towards the bunk arguments that you mentioned earlier
[10:05:07 PM] <timmat> cute
[10:05:19 PM] <Yoshi> I hope to talk to you later, goodnight


       
Tweet

oh well (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 08:31:12 PM PST
It's funny how you site PC Magazine and PC World. I have been reading them for years and not seen anything pathetic like that. Maybe you could point out specific issue numbers. Then I could simply visit their websites and read the back issues. While John C. Dvorak is good but I also like reading Extreme Tech by Bill Machrone.

You didn't teach him anything. You still come off like an idiot. MAC address has nothing to do with Macintosh computers.

You have sited sources (PC Magazine and PC World). I am an avid reader and have been to the websites and found nothing that would support your stupidity. Oh wqait, you won't provide links because you don't wanna bother to do someone else research. The simpy truth is that you can't find anything to support the garbage you spout off so you dance around the subject.

And by the way, I am confused as to why you would read magazine that have such strong linux supporters. Oh maybe you didn't catch the issue of PC Magazine that was almost complete dedicated to Linux (Chossing Linux, Nov 2001). Perhaps you missed the January 2002 issue with a big picture of Red Hat Linux on the cover surrounded by the words 'Best Products for 2002'. Of course my favorite was the '2nd PC Revolution' (Sept 2001). I love that timeline snipet near that back that makes all of you look like idiots.


dear sir (none / 0) (#2)
by nathan on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 08:49:56 PM PST
Your spelling and grammar problems weaken your argument.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

is it possible... (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 08:59:47 PM PST
to construct a better response? One that doesn't sink to simply attacking spelling and grammar.


depends. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by nathan on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 09:15:31 PM PST
Is it possible to construct a better post? One that doesn't suck?

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Sure (2.50 / 2) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 10:21:42 PM PST
When it's possible to come to this website and it doesn't blow.


 
No (none / 0) (#9)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 12:41:43 AM PST
To do that, it would be necessary to wade through your spelling errors and poor grammar. Nobody has the time or the incentive.


 
and... (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:33:48 PM PST
Factual errors, such as ones presented by Yoshi, will weaken any argument.


I should get a medal. (none / 0) (#23)
by nathan on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:45:31 PM PST
These open source advocates defy belief. You try to gently, politely, lead them to improving their writing, and how do they respond? They label you as an adversary.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Thats odd (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:19:21 PM PST
Someone else with the same beliefs as Yoshi.. Yoshi, you aren't making new accounts to pretend you have friends are you?


Oh my God. (none / 0) (#93)
by hauntedattics on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 04:41:48 PM PST
Someone with the same beliefs as Yoshi! Call the thought police!

Yep, I'm Yoshi too. Yoshi is everywhere. Be very afraid.




 
see what I mean? (none / 0) (#103)
by nathan on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 08:55:21 AM PST
I have not professed Yoshi's opinions (I am not rejecting them either, but that is nothing to do with this argument.) I merely took issue with slovenly grammar and spelling, which is a form of cultural terrorism; then, along comes an AR and conflates my defense of the English language with an assault on Linux zealots.

Linux zealots suck.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
What a nerd. (none / 0) (#4)
by Yoshi on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 09:03:15 PM PST
Yeah, if I kept a bookshelf of all of the old issues as a shrine to g**kdom, I'd certainly get the back issue numbers for you. Alas, tis not true. I purchase the issues with the flashy colors on the newsstands, read them, and throw them away.

MAC address has nothing to do with Macintosh computers.

That's absurd. You know how vigorous Jobs protects his trademarks, do you really think he'd let something like this slide by? Of course it's an Apple creation.

The simpy truth is that you can't find anything to support the garbage you spout off so you dance around the subject.

That's absolute nonsense. If you bothered to read the log in its entirety, you'd note several instances in which I provided links to external sources which backed me up.

Oh maybe you didn't catch the issue of PC Magazine that was almost complete dedicated to Linux (Chossing Linux, Nov 2001).

Again, I purchase issues from the newsstands as to not waste my money on issues which clearly would not interest me. I highly doubt that such a publication would give such devotion to an illegal OS, however. Was this a cover story or one of those 'back-alley' ads that slipped into the back and went unnoticed by the editors?

Perhaps you missed the January 2002 issue with a big picture of Red Hat Linux on the cover surrounded by the words 'Best Products for 2002'.

I've got the Janyuary (15,) 2002 issue right here, Bubba, and the symbiotic Red Linux box with the Fedora and hidden Hammer and Sickle are all there (it's like one of those Magic Eye boards from way back in the day). The picture doesn't measure more than an inch by an inch, and is far outshadowed by the more revolutionary designs on the cover, such as the Journada Pocket PC 2002 displaying a great big Windows logo.

Of course my favorite was the '2nd PC Revolution' (Sept 2001). I love that timeline snipet near that back that makes all of you look like idiots.

What a nerd.


here we go (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 09:35:58 PM PST
Yeah, if I kept a bookshelf of all of the old issues as a shrine to g**kdom, I'd certainly get the back issue numbers for you.
Why not simply go to the websites then?
That's absurd. You know how vigorous Jobs protects his trademarks, do you really think he'd let something like this slide by? Of course it's an Apple creation.
Apparently you don't know much about networking do you? MAC is an acronym which stands for Media Acess Control. Mac (notice the difference) is NOT an acronym. It's simply short for Macintosh.

MAC address
The unique serial number burned into Ethernet and Token Ring adapters that identifes that network card from all others.

Short for Media Access Control address, a hardware address that uniquely identifies each node of a network. In IEEE 802 networks, the Data Link Control (DLC) layer of the OSI Reference Model is divided into two sublayers: the Logical Link Control (LLC) layer and the Media Access Control (MAC) layer. The MAC layer interfaces directly with the network media. Consequently, each different type of network media requires a different MAC layer.

On networks that do not conform to the IEEE 802 standards but do conform to the OSI Reference Model, the node address is called the Data Link Control (DLC) address.
If you bothered to read the log in its entirety, you'd note several instances in which I provided links to external sources which backed me up.
I have read it. The only sources you provided were from your own writing. Either that or you rambled on about "it's a lie MS did this and so and so did that". You didn't provide links except to other adequacy.org stories by people that believe the same idiocies you do. Never once when you claimed MS did this or that did you link to a reference. How simple would it have been to link to a Microsoft website?
Was this a cover story or one of those 'back-alley' ads that slipped into the back and went unnoticed by the editors?
I don't know. What do consider almost the enitre second half of the issue?
I've got the Janyuary (15,) 2002 issue right here, Bubba, and the symbiotic Red Linux box with the Fedora and hidden Hammer and Sickle are all there (it's like one of those Magic Eye boards from way back in the day).
Gee turn to page 94 and there it is again. And did you read the web server comparisons? IIS really didn't do all the fabulous now did it?


get your facts straight (none / 0) (#10)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 04:36:27 AM PST
Why not simply go to the websites then?

I do. I refuse to go to any of your hacker websites like "LinuxToday" and other various sites promoting terrorism and violation of the DMCA, however.

MAC is an acronym which stands for Media Acess Control. Mac (notice the difference) is NOT an acronym. It's simply short for Macintosh.

No, you're completely wrong and have your facts messed up. The Macintosh address was Steve Jobs' answer to the V-chip. Since we all know Steve Jobs believes in piracy and copyright theft (ever seen an iPod commercial? NO copy protection), his 'rival' product carries only two segments of IP token information. The first segment contains the "port" of the computer, which may constantly change to help evade the hacker detection software run by Amazon and Yahoo. The second segment is a segment known as V92, which is a special protocol to alllow secret encrypted communications between other users with a Macintosh address.

How simple would it have been to link to a Microsoft website?

Give me a break. I'm willing to bet that any knowledgeable computer expert would back me up on any misconceptions you have mentioned. I can't wait until timmat comes back from showing it to his "professors".

What do consider almost the enitre second half of the issue?

Well, there are ads, classified ads, and that one Backspace segment.

Gee turn to page 94 and there it is again.

When I turn to page 94, I see a great big flashy picture of the Windows XP holographic disc and an exerpt on its features.

IIS really didn't do all the fabulous now did it?

According to that chart, it looks like IIS has more features than any other web server. Perhaps you misread it.


oh man (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:23:17 AM PST
I do. I refuse to go to any of your hacker websites like "LinuxToday" and other various sites promoting terrorism and violation of the DMCA, however.
Then why not visit sites like www.pcmag.com or www.pcworld.com? Then post some links to this supposed information that backs up your idiotic claims.

I'm not even going to delv into your argument about MAC address. "Ports" and "V92"? So you don't trust ports huh? Then don't visit any way pages because to call up a web page you utilize HTTP (port 80). And don't buy a modem which uses V90 or the newer V92 (this includes WINMODEMS) as you'll have a pain in the ass time connecting to any damned thing.

And don't get me started on how Apple successfully sued Micro$haft for stealing ideas and implementing them into Windows 1.0 and later paid Apple $150 million to shut up.
Give me a break. I'm willing to bet that any knowledgeable computer expert would back me up on any misconceptions you have mentioned.
Then it should be so easy for you to provide a link to any technical website including your beloved Micro$haft. It's funny how I can visit any tech website (inluding MS sites) and pull up information that debunks your claims and post the links. You however can do nothing.
Well, there are ads, classified ads, and that one Backspace segment
And which particular issue are you looking at?
According to that chart, it looks like IIS has more features than any other web server. Perhaps you misread it.
Funny, looks more like iPlanet and Apache have more features. Amazing how IIS didn't get editor's pick. It was closely ranked with iPlanet from Sun Microsystems. Oh look Zeus Web Server (which only runs on unices) was Editor's Pick, got 5/5 all around and outperformed IIS.


he wishes (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:41:45 AM PST
He only wishes he had some knowledge. Of course he's just another novice luser. So he compensates by making stuff up as he goes completely avoiding questions. He must be a good dancer because he can dance around the issue.

I mean this is guy that doesn't know the difference between Netscape-Enterprise web server and Netscape Navigator brower.

Yeah, a website powered by a browser. If that's not a clear case in point to discredit everything Netcraft stands for, I don't know what is. Tell me when you've got real information.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I know the issue you are referring to. I also know the issue with the web server comparisons.

From the January, 2002 issue
If you want a inexpensive, easy-to-use Web server and are comfortable with hewing to Microsoft-centric strategy that includes Active Server Pages (ASP), COM+, and Visual Studio, then IIS holds a lot of appeal.
In that same issue under Apache
The venerable Apache HTTP Server is an open-source success story that's still behind more than half of all Web sites, according to the latest Netcraft survey numbers.


Keep 'em comin' Yoshi. I could always use another good laugh!


sigh (none / 0) (#16)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:27:20 AM PST
I mean this is guy that doesn't know the difference between Netscape-Enterprise web server and Netscape Navigator brower.

What the hell are you talking about? I go to Netscape's website and click Download. What do I see? "Netscape 6.2". I don't see any of your fabricated "Netscape-Enterprise" balogna. I don't even see this "Netscape Navigator" junk either, so I'm just going to assume you're making up stuff.

If you want a inexpensive, easy-to-use Web server and are comfortable with hewing to Microsoft-centric strategy that includes Active Server Pages (ASP), COM+, and Visual Studio, then IIS holds a lot of appeal.

Simple editorial fact checking would have prevented this error. I already explained other critical errors with the IIS review that PC Magazine made.

The venerable Apache HTTP Server is an open-source success story that's still behind more than half of all Web sites, according to the latest Netcraft survey numbers.

I believe the Apache Marketshare myth has already been disproven here before, as has Netcraft's clear fraud in this area.


 
troll alert (none / 0) (#15)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:01:19 AM PST
Then why not visit sites like www.pcmag.com or www.pcworld.com? Then post some links to this supposed information that backs up your idiotic claims.

They don't have the same commentary posted there. What incentive do you have to buy the magazine if you can read the insight of John C. Dvorak online?

So you don't trust ports huh? Then don't visit any way pages because to call up a web page you utilize HTTP (port 80). And don't buy a modem which uses V90 or the newer V92 (this includes WINMODEMS) as you'll have a pain in the ass time connecting to any damned thing.

Wrong. I don't have to worry about those V-chip data packet clones because I don't have a Macintosh addressable modem.

And don't get me started on how Apple successfully sued Micro$haft for stealing ideas and implementing them into Windows 1.0 and later paid Apple $150 million to shut up.

Give me a break. Everyone knows that Windows was under development long before Apple was even incorporated as a company.

I can visit any tech website (inluding MS sites) and pull up information that debunks your claims and post the links.

Well, whatever you need to do to back up your "facts". I provide you with valuable insight, you can go the route of links if you wish to outsource your ideas.

And which particular issue are you looking at?

Every single issue.

Funny, looks more like iPlanet and Apache have more features.

Seriously. Where the fuck are you looking? Page 114, I swear to god, count up the little black dots. IIS wins hands down on a feature count. Are you illiterate, blind, or both? Your severe ignorance is frustrating.

It was closely ranked with iPlanet from Sun Microsystems.

Look at the negatives that they list. Problematic security history? Evidentally the author didn't look at the bug reports for Apache. I swear to god, every single fucking week there is a new exploit for Directory Traversal or whatever. "Vendor lock-in"? Great, you're locked into a robust OS that has every feature you'd need. That's right, a free web and FTP server bundled with the OS. I don't see that from Zeus. "Limited fine tuning?" Apparently this author has never used ISAPI. Absolute bunk. Remember, take what you read in magazines with a grain of salt. John C. Dvorak is trustworthy, but most of these authors are greasy Linux hackers in disguise.


You should study your history (none / 0) (#19)
by Tim Mathews on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:33:49 AM PST
Give me a break. Everyone knows that Windows was under development long before Apple was even incorporated as a company.

The first place you may want to start when learning about the progression of the OS for personal computers may be the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley" released first on TNT and later on VHS, I know you'll say its all a fabrication, it has to be because of it's title. Well then try the book "Fire in the Valley" another good book on the history of the personal computer and you will see that MacOS was developed and released before Microsoft had any notion of developing something like that. So, don't say that windows came first, it didn't. MacOS wasn't the first either for that matter, they copied off of Xerox's PARC research facility which invented, among other things ethernet and the graphical OS. Xerox didn't want to market it so Apple stepped in and made their own. The court records are available.


Yoshi in Hollywood (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 08:02:37 PM PST
Yoshi would make a great Hollywood writer. They don't know shit either.

Computer Movies Suck


HAHAHA! (none / 0) (#42)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:16:27 PM PST
If Hackers 2 comes out I know exactly who to blame! :)


 
Scriptwriters don't know shit? (none / 0) (#61)
by RobotSlave on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 06:17:56 AM PST
Tell me, if hollywood screenwriters don't know anything, then how do the successful ones make so much money?

Answer carefully. This is a trap.


© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

 
WOW (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 07:44:24 PM PST
They don't have the same commentary posted there. What incentive do you have to buy the magazine if you can read the insight of John C. Dvorak online?

Strange, as I am reading every commentary word for word. I can't believe I spent $5 for the magazine when I could have read it for free without renewal cards spilling out of everywhere.

Wrong. I don't have to worry about those V-chip data packet clones because I don't have a Macintosh addressable modem.

port 80, v90, and v92 are NOT Macintosh specific.

Give me a break. Everyone knows that Windows was under development long before Apple was even incorporated as a company.

What about that whole thing where Apple was selling systems while Microsoft was still writing BASIC for the MITS Altair 8800? The Apple Lisa had a GUI and MS was still playing with DOS!

Every single issue.

So what was all that "I don't buy every issue blah blah blah? Again, I purchase issues from the newsstands as to not waste my money on issues which clearly would not interest me. I highly doubt that such a publication would give such devotion to an illegal OS, however." Choosing Linux, Nov 2001!

Damn you sound like a raving idiot. It seems I really don't need to point out websites and such. A trip to Best Buy or any other local computer retail outlet and you'll find winmodems with the following items on the box:
56K
V.90 (or V.92)
NOTHING ABOUT V-CHIPS

Anyone learning anything about computer and networking or an industry profesional would literally laugh at you. Maybe you should take your act on the road. Watch as those at the Consumer Electronics Show, Comdex, MacExpo, E3 laugh at you till you cry. Now I would pay to see that.


Oh my god. (none / 0) (#26)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 08:35:46 PM PST
Strange, as I am reading every commentary word for word. I can't believe I spent $5 for the magazine when I could have read it for free without renewal cards spilling out of everywhere.

Look, you terrorists will stop at nothing to help bring down the Capitalism that makes America so great, will you? You come to online BBSes and spew your nonsense about how you don't pay for music, movies, and now magazines anymore. How do you expect the authors to make money? Or is that of any concern to you, because they are not Islam?

port 80, v90, and v92 are NOT Macintosh specific.

No one mentioned port revision 80 or V90. You are wrong, however, in saying that the V92 component of the Macintosh address are not specific only to the Macintosh address. Please do some more research on this topic before infiltrating this topic again.

The Apple Lisa had a GUI and MS was still playing with DOS!

Apparently you misread my previous post. I said Windows was in development for far longer than Apple's offerings were. Apple rushed theirs to the market first, however, and its quality shows.

So what was all that "I don't buy every issue blah blah blah?

Every issue follows the same regimine, so I can say that with absolute certainty. Your nitpicking will only show off what a little case you have.

you'll find winmodems with the following items on the box: [...] NOTHING ABOUT V-CHIPS

You know damn well what they are. Hell, you probably imported a modchip with Linux to disable the V-chip on your own modem. Why would we expect any less from you terrorists?

Now I would pay to see that.

That'd be a first. I'm sure your money would go to the other free software crooks though, where they would also hoard it while continuing their IP thieving ways.


pardon me.. (none / 0) (#27)
by nathan on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 08:50:37 PM PST
May I have a capital "G" in "God"?

Thanks, Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

My apologies, Sir (none / 0) (#34)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:18:12 PM PST
It won't happen again. I take the blame and accept the fallout for that error.


 
Not Islam? (none / 0) (#30)
by Tim Mathews on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:27:15 PM PST
So being Islamic is wrong? The terrorists who attacked the WTO, the embasys in Africa, etc. are not what Islam is about. Those people are the equivilent of the extremists in this country who bomb abortion clinics and claim that it's god's work. Do not attack the religion because a few people use it to further their political beliefs. The fundamentals of Islam are the same as those of Christianity and Judaism. Islam is after all merely a progression of the Judeo-Christian tradition, the Qur'an is just a progression of the Bible. But I'm sure you knew that.


Islam (none / 0) (#33)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:16:32 PM PST
So being Islamic is wrong? The terrorists who attacked the WTO, the embasys in Africa, etc. are not what Islam is about.

Sometimes well-minded things suffer perversions and cause them to cease to be relevant. Remember the Swastica before the Nazis squandered it? It was originally a sign of peace and love. Obviously now, its original purpose has no role in modern society. Are you saying that after Islam was used to destroy the lives of countless families, it should still be boasted in its true intent? Why aren't you out there trying to set straight the true meaning of the Swastica?

Those people are the equivilent of the extremists in this country who bomb abortion clinics and claim that it's god's work.

A few renegade believers does not construe the beliefs of the entire group. However, entire nations of believers (Iran, Afghanistan, et. al) do have that power.

The fundamentals of Islam are the same as those of Christianity and Judaism.

"Fundimentals" won't get you anywhere. Like I mentioned earlier, the "fundimental basis" of the Swastica surrounded around peace. Sometimes you just have to drop the past and start anew.


Yoshi, Yoshi, Yoshi... (none / 0) (#105)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 11:38:03 AM PST
My I remind you of a time when Christians were as well terrorists? Repeatedly, they tried to crush without any real cause or reason - guess who - the Muslims. Should Christianity cease to be relevant, just as you have said Islam has? Because there was a time when the merchants and financial elite of the time thought we should fight a war and told us it was God's will to kill the Muslims. Is this sounding familiar to you? It looks as if the religion I believe in which is the same one many of your Conservative counterparts, if not yourself, believe in has suffered perversion itself. Should we then abandon it?

Please, enlighten me. I wait for your golden tongue to shower knowledge upon my heathen, unknowning ears.


Sir... (none / 0) (#106)
by doofus on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 02:06:42 PM PST
...there was a time when the merchants and financial elite of the time thought we should fight a war and told us it was God's will to kill the Muslims.

I agree with your argument; the Islamic world is indeed approximately 1000 years behind the (now superior) western world.


 
go read (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:54:44 PM PST
I suggest you, Yoshi (the idiot) pick up the following:

A+ Certification Preparation Manual
Data Communications Manual
Network+ Certification Preparation Manual
MCSE Certification Preparation Manual (you can check the MS website for more on this)

Who knows you might actually learn something (doubtful). Get them quickly before you post something else that makes you look stupid. You, and others like you, are an insult to those of us who took the time and spent the money to get an education.

Joseph Kilmwell
MOUS, MCSE, MCP, MCSD


Ahem. (none / 0) (#94)
by hauntedattics on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 04:47:18 PM PST
Pardon me, Mr. Kilmwell, but as someone with a Master's degree from a top U.S. university, I don't recognize all the nice letters after your name. Kindly spell them out for me.

Hugs,
Haunted

P.S. That 'E' in 'MCSE' wouldn't happen to attempt to stand for 'engineer,' now would it?



MCSE (none / 0) (#95)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 05:05:11 PM PST
Microsoft Certified System Engineer. You need to take a long test and pay I think +$1000 (don't remember my job paid for mine (dot com)) Basically means you are certified by Microsoft to be knowledgeable in the ways of operating Windows in a server environment (so they don't have to just take your word for it)

Good jon by the way that test was HARD(at least for me)


Certification (none / 0) (#100)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 09:49:09 PM PST
MOUS = Microsoft Office User Specialist (just for the hell of it)

MCSE = Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

MCSD = Microsoft Certified Solution Developer

MCSA (new) = Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator (I have already begun the process and am wel on my way to becoming a Charter Member (first 50,000 to get certified)



So... (none / 0) (#104)
by hauntedattics on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 09:14:55 AM PST
all of your certifications are in the use of Microsoft products. Interesting.

And I meant what I said about that 'E' attempting to stand for 'engineer.' No one who pays $1,000 and takes one class merits the same title as those who have real engineering degrees and help build bridges, design products, deliver clean drinking water, etc.



HA, you're a natural. (none / 0) (#108)
by osm on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 03:48:50 PM PST
And I meant what I said about that 'E' attempting to stand for 'engineer.' No one who pays $1,000 and takes one class merits the same title as those who have real engineering degrees and help build bridges, design products, deliver clean drinking water, etc.


 
I Don't Know (none / 0) (#7)
by doofus on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 10:10:54 PM PST
whether to laugh or to cry.

Yoshi, once again an amazing defense of all that is right, good and proper.

Perhaps our not-quite-adequate friend timmat learned a few things...


I know, I know (none / 0) (#11)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 04:38:39 AM PST
It was a hard struggle, arguing with an individual so adamently opposed to common knowledge and fact.

By the way, your link puts me in an infinite loop. I sincerely hope that was not intended.


Oops! Correct Link (none / 0) (#17)
by doofus on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:27:27 AM PST
No, it was not intended.

This is the intended link (maybe I'm not so adequate, either. Damn.).


 
Re: I don't know (none / 0) (#20)
by Tim Mathews on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 12:45:30 PM PST
I learned quite a bit. Mostly that political extremists like Yoshi and yourself like to talk about aspects of computing that they know nothing about, all the while believing that they are experts. I learned that people like T.R. Gibbons like to attack people on their grammer and punctuation because they can't find a better attack. But above all, I learned that you can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try if they won't listen.
--Tim


Sir... (none / 0) (#21)
by doofus on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 02:03:54 PM PST
Were you perchance educated in a US public school? If so, that would explain your obvious lack of clear-thinking and analytical capabilities.

Maybe you should consider going back and furthering your (re)education at a fine, upstanding, disciplined institution of higher learning, such as this one.

[whisper]
Perhaps one more thing you can learn is the definition of this word: irony.

Or this one: comedy

You don't need to know the definition of this word: advocacy

Don't let the regulars around here know I pointed you in the right direction, OK?
[/whisper]


Well, Sir... (none / 0) (#29)
by Tim Mathews on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:15:05 PM PST
If you really must know, the first twelve years of my education were spent in Catholic school (and before you come up with any witty remarks, I didn't repeat any years). This is my highschool here. I imagine that Catholic school isn't quite conservative enough for you, but then what can be expected when your "conservatism" borders on facism. Where is my obvious lack of clear-thinking and analytical capabilities? I have shown nothing but fact, while you counter it with merely beliefs based on misunderstanding. It is a pity that you have allowed yourselves to be brainwashed by corporate america and your "christian schools" into thinking the way you do. You critisize my logic while yours is based on nothing but conjecture. Do you honestly believe that all the proof that I have given in support of my point is fabricated? Do you believe that there is some world-wide conspiracy involving the US government, book publishing companies, respected universities, the majority of web hosting companies in the world and at least 70% of all network administrators to trick the people into believing that Linux is a good, stable alternative to the unstable and unpredictable software that comes out of Redmond, WA, when in fact it's a terrorist tool designed to undermine large corporations? Where do you get these ideas? Who tells you this stuff, or do you make it up and spend time convincing yourselves of it? What is wrong with using software written to be used and enjoyed by anyone who wishes free of charge? What is wrong with contributing to a group, regardless of whether or not you benefit? We don't write subversive code designed to take down websites or infiltrate government computers, we are not motivated by economics or politics, we do not dwell on the ideas of borders and exportation laws, we do view other cultures as different or unacceptable because of their form of government or the religion that they follow. We demand only the right to create and share. We do not wish to be made to use an inferior product merely because it can be sold. A closed mind is a terrible, terrible thing to use against other people. I came here knowing that my views would be different, I came because I was tired of always reading stuff I agreed with, it bored me to no end. Here I found a great collection of people who oppose my every word. It's exciting really. I don't understand the point of only reading things that you agree with. If you don't understand the other fellow you can not ever have an informed debate with him. This is what starts war, refusal to see the issue from any other point of view. We're all guilty of it, some more than others though. The problem here though is that you base your entire argument on falacy and the refusal to do further research. I hope I got through to someone here with this.


Sir... (none / 0) (#66)
by doofus on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 10:08:40 AM PST
Education is a valuable asset; a pearl, if you will, and one that should not be cast before swine.

And so, with that in mind, I present you with the "paragraph" tag:

<p>

And optionally, the "end paragraph" tag:

</p>

Perhaps using it will allow me to plow through whatever drivel you've written above, but until such time as you do see fit to use it, I cannot forsee myself reading anything that gives me a headache just looknig at it.

I'm quite sure the other adequate people here agree with me.

Remember, appearances count, despite the open source zealot/hacker mentality of function over form.


'looknig'? (none / 0) (#82)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:27:24 PM PST
Ok, if reading that gives you headache, perhaps we could use smaller words.


 
He's not so bad. (none / 0) (#77)
by derek3000 on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:48:16 PM PST
...we are not motivated by economics or politics, we do not dwell on the ideas of borders and exportation laws, we do view other cultures as different or unacceptable because of their form of government or the religion that they follow.

Maybe there is hope for you yet. Xenophobia is a very respectable trait.




----------------
"Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

Please excuse my typos (none / 0) (#83)
by Tim Mathews on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:30:05 PM PST
All you people know how to do is attack spelling, grammar and errors of ommission. Try to be a little more creative, ok?


An excellent post. (none / 0) (#85)
by derek3000 on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:38:22 PM PST
Your troll is completely sound in the fundamentals of the English language. I applaud you, sir.




----------------
"Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

 
Yoshi... (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:23:34 PM PST
Come on now Yoshi just because you make a new login doesn't mean you have real friends.


 
um... (none / 0) (#62)
by derek3000 on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 07:01:16 AM PST
I learned that people like T.R. Gibbons like to attack people on their grammer and punctuation because they can't find a better attack.

Does bringing up spelling errors constitute a 'better attack'?




----------------
"Feel me when I bring it!" --Gay Jamie

Sorry (none / 0) (#69)
by Tim Mathews on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 11:10:25 AM PST
No, it really doesn't.


 
can't we all just get along? (none / 0) (#14)
by astrix on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 08:02:07 AM PST
I don't understand why so many trollers like Tim come to the most controversial site on the Internet. They ruin it for everyone with their hacker lingo and fabricated ideas about technology. Tim go back to Slashdot and that other site where you can spread your commie propoganda among all the other hackers in your little hacker club.


"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" --Thomas Jefferson

 
Yoshi, Yoshi, Yoshi (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:48:25 AM PST
Yoshi your a moron.
-Your mom


 
Yoshi and Pals - You're all morons (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:12:32 PM PST
My Name is Pete Skillman and I happen to be a friend of Tim's.
I wanted to let you guys know that you're all making fools of yourselves to all of us in the EDUCATED technical community. Some of us have actually taken apart a computer before. We've actually set up and hosted websites, e-mail, and computing resources for our friends and family. Most of us that do that, do that on some type of UNIX, many Linux, not because it is communist. Trust me, I don't support communism - I'm a registered Republican - but you guys seriously sound like crazy old women and frankly, I'd like to help you guys out with a few little explanations. If you want to know more, go to a bookstore, or better yet a library. I happen to work at a library here in Maryland, and I can tell you we have plenty of books on these subjects. I mean, how do you think I learned about them?

V-Chips have nothing to do with V.90, or V.92, hell even the old V.34. These are methods of compressing data to be sent over phone lines, and help make things go faster on your Internet connection. For further reading, get a manual on modems or the A+ certification.

MAC addresses, like someone else here said, are an addressing system used in Network Interface cards. It's a big, long number that is unique to all network cards created. It's an ACRONYM. Any networking manual - even the Microsoft MCSE TCP/IP book - will tell you that.

As for Alan Cox hiding information about bugs in Linux - He was thumbing his nose at the DMCA, a terribly unneccesary piece of legislation. As a Republican, I stand for less government interference in my life, and the DMCA outlawing ALL information sharing because you MIGHT use that to steal is like outlawing hammers because you can kill someone with a hammer if you want to. It's overkill, and it goes against all that this country stands for.

As a side note, Yoshi, I hope you realize that your comments are being posted on a Communist computer. That's right - this website is run on FreeBSD, a UNIX clone which, like your dreaded Linux, shares it's code and is free to any who wish to use it.

I use Linux personally, because like the admins at this site, I don't want to have to reboot my computer every 25 minutes, but most importantly, because it's fun to do. UNIX/Linux is what the Internet was and still is based on, and I want you to remember that we wouldn't be having this discussion on this website without an open-source UNIX.


Thanks for the kudos. (none / 0) (#32)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:05:33 PM PST
We've actually set up and hosted websites, e-mail, and computing resources for our friends and family.

Does that put you on a higher level of esteem than the rest of us? Should you somehow feel elite for doing such? Should I feel less of a person?

Trust me, I don't support communism - I'm a registered Republican - but you guys seriously sound like crazy old women and frankly, I'd like to help you guys out with a few little explanations.

I'm a registered Republican too, but I'd like for you to explain how all of this "sharing for the public good" is anything but Communism.

V-Chips have nothing to do with V.90, or V.92, hell even the old V.34.

I know. They're competing technologies. On one hand, the V-Chips are used in most modern PCs, while on the other hand, the Macintosh Addressable Modems have their own Port/V92 "technologies" (a sneaky way to evade the law yet still implementing rudimentary hacking prevention).

MAC addresses, like someone else here said, are an addressing system used in Network Interface cards.

Partially correct. The Macintosh addressing scheme does implement rudimentary identification in the Port subsystem, but that's only half of the battle. The other half is their patented V92 technology, which is currently under wraps at Apple HQ, so we don't know much about it yet.

As a Republican, I stand for less government interference in my life, and the DMCA outlawing ALL information sharing because you MIGHT use that to steal is like outlawing hammers because you can kill someone with a hammer if you want to.

Now wait just a minute. As a Republican, you should know that the solution to a law you don't like isn't to simply violate it and ignore its existence! Imagine what the roadways would be like if, all of a sudden, people decided they didn't agree with the traffic laws. Chaos! For you to claim that because you think the DMCA is unfair, therefore you can simply violate it without fear of retribution is absurd. As a Republican, you should know better.

That's right - this website is run on FreeBSD, a UNIX clone which, like your dreaded Linux, shares it's code and is free to any who wish to use it.

First of all, I'd like to know how you would think you know. Were you hacking into the database? If so, it won't be long before the feds show up. You do know that convicted felons can't vote, right?

UNIX/Linux is what the Internet was and still is based on, and I want you to remember that we wouldn't be having this discussion on this website without an open-source UNIX.

That's absolutely absurd. Microsoft and AOL partnered together to author the backbone protocols of the internet, and the UNIX using college hippies stole it. To claim that UNIX is somehow responsible for the internet is laughable at best, saddening at worst.


Yoshi, you keep making things up (none / 0) (#35)
by Tim Mathews on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:31:18 PM PST
Microsoft and AOL partnered together to author the backbone protocols of the internet, and the UNIX using college hippies stole it.

Unix was developed at Bell Labs in the mid 1960's. The programing language C, was invented to write Unix. If that hadn't happened, there wouldn't be a Microsoft Windows, since its written in C and C++. The internet got its footing in the ARPAnet, a government project to develop redundant communications in the event of a nuclear strike. TCP/IP (the backbone protocol of the internet) was made official in 1980/81, when MS was just starting out, before AOL was even concieved of. It was developed on Unix computers. Read some damned RFC's. That stands for Request for Comments in case you didn't know. The are a lot of them, several thousand. Try FAQs.org. This is a good one, it was written in 1980, specifying IP, which is a DoD standard, not a MS thing. rfc760.


 
Pure lack of knowledge and reading ability (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:47:51 PM PST
Yoshi,

You really prove your ignorance the more you talk. You don't know what you're talking about which is why I made my comment about running a server - to show that I have actual background in this.

I know this site runs FreeBSD because it is common, public knowledge. I asked the server what it was running in a way that is used for all Web transactions. You asked the server for the information in this page, and it was delivered using the same method. No "hacker" tricks, just HTTP - if you know what that means. Is reading this website "stealing information from the mainframe" as you would say? Because I did the same thing.

If you know your history, you will find that you are only partially correct about UNIX's "theft." yes, UNIX was taken by Universities, but not from AOL and Microsoft, hell AOL wasn't around back then. I'm talking circa 1969. UNIX was taken from AT&T. In fact, it wasn't even taken. AT&T gave it to them in the hopes that they would make it better, and finish the shitty job they did of developing it for FREE. Yes, FREE. AT&T wanted to steal the hard work of hundreds of college students so that they could profit from it. The Universities, feeling that they got a raw deal, sued, and were allowed to continue making a separate version.

The "backbone protocols" you refer to are something that those who can read call "TCP/IP."
They too, despite your greatest hopes, were not stolen from Microsoft or AOL, who, again was not around then. They were created at Universities like Stanford and Berkley, by professors and students, and integraed into the UNIXes they produced. One of those students was Bill Joy, who went on to found Sun Microsystems. Stunning to think that UNIX, not Macs, or Windoze was the the first to have networking. In fact, the first UNIX with networking was the Berkley System Distribution, or BSD, which evolved into the FreeBSD that runs this fabulous website, like I said earlier.

This brings me to my next point. I want to quiz you, to see if you truely do have any understanding of what you're talking about. I mentioned TCP/IP before. Can you tell me what it stands for? How many protocols are in the TCP/IP suite? What are they, and what are their individual purposes?

Perhaps you need not just A+, Net+, MCSE, and CCNA manuals as suggested, but a history text as well. My wishes of good luck in your LONG journey back to sanity and enlightenment.

- Pete


Ignoramus (none / 0) (#40)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:09:00 PM PST
You don't know what you're talking about which is why I made my comment about running a server - to show that I have actual background in this.

So what? Anyone can select IIS and install it from Windows 2000. That doesn't make you an expert in web technology like myself. I didn't feel like I needed to explain my background in web and database programming, but apparently you think this is a war of credentials.

I asked the server what it was running in a way that is used for all Web transactions. You asked the server for the information in this page, and it was delivered using the same method.

The methods you described above are precisely not what the intent of Adequacy.org is for - and I appreciate your honesty. It will serve as a wonderful deposition when the feds come knocking.

AT&T wanted to steal the hard work of hundreds of college students so that they could profit from it.

Now that's a role reversal if I ever heard one.

They were created at Universities like Stanford and Berkley, by professors and students, and integraed into the UNIXes they produced.

Absolutely factually incorrect. The very first networking of two computers was demonstrated in a research lab proctored by both AOL and Microsoft employees. Since then, the two companies have split their ways, as you may have heard recently, but their invention lives on in the lives of all of us. Thank you, Microsoft and AOL.

In fact, the first UNIX with networking was the Berkley System Distribution, or BSD

Is it any wonder that the acronym behind it doesn't make any verbal sense in its English form? The hippies at Berkeley did this on purpose, for their own LSD using pleasures. I wouldn't take anything putting "BSD" in a positive light seriously.

I mentioned TCP/IP before. Can you tell me what it stands for?

Termination Control Packets and Internet Positioning. The two datagrams were implemented first into the Microsoft XBox for their next generation Internet gaming products. The first, Termination Control Packets, implement error correction on top of the original underlying Internet technology designed by Microsoft and AOL over a decade prior. This proves very useful in a system like the XBox - no longer will you experience the "lag" you may notice in computer games. Yet more revolutionary technology from Microsoft.
The second, Internet Positioning, is the second brand new technology revolutionized by Microsoft for their XBox product. This new datagram technology coexists with TCP to foster the error correcting technology. This way, the data gets to its destination faster. When it doesn't, TCP kicks in and repairs any errors in nanoseconds.

My wishes of good luck in your LONG journey back to sanity and enlightenment.

Same to you.


Oh MY God (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:25:24 PM PST
Yoshi,

I just laughed my ass off!!

Your explanation of TCP/IP is all wrong. You should at least know that TCP/IP settings were in Windows as far back as Windows 95, which definitely predates the XBox.

In the efforts of fostering growth of knowledge, here is the REAL meaning of TCP/IP (as described in Microsoft's own TCP/IP documentation, although like I said, they didn't invent it - or anything else for that matter)

TCP/IP stands for Transmission Control Protocol / Internet Protocol. It consists of 6 protocols:

TCP - Transmission Control Protocol - This does handle error checking and flow control. It also maps the ports that we were talking about earlier (such as port 80 for web servers).

UDP - User Datagram Protocol - Like TCP, but no error checking. This strickly keeps track of ports for programs that do not need error checking.

IP - Internet Protocol - This handles delivery of packets or chunks of data on the Internet. It also is responsible for addressing - hence IP addresses.

ICMP - Internet Control Message Protocol - This handles sending errors if something gets screwed up with IP. ICMP can also be used to tell if a site or computer is reachable using a "ping" or ICMP Echo Request.

IGMP - Internet Group Management Protocol - Responsible for addressing for packets sent to several hosts at once, on different networks.

ARP/RARP - Address Resolution Protocol/Reverse Address Resolution Protocol - Translates IP addresses into the MAC addresses you hate so much, and vice versa.

I hope this has been fun for you, and like I said, all of this is WELL DOCUMENTED in Microsoft's own literature if you don't trust other, more reputable sources (not sauces).

- Pete


 
Microsoft and AOL!? (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:06:28 PM PST
Dude, AOL is sueing Microsoft right now you do read the news paper at least don't you? Some partnership.


 
I just noticed something (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:11:50 PM PST
Yoshi,

Pete again.

Do you realize that when you posted your IRC conversation with my good friend Tim, you posted his hostname as well? Do you know what a hostname is? It's the address of his computer on the Internet. I would appreciate you taking that down. You're causing Tim's network to be at risk.

Now if I were you, I'd say something like this:

"You and your hacker ways have stolen my computers IT number, and are going to use it to bye dead babies and have them sent to me. Then the (CIA/FBI/NSA/FDIC/NIS/FDA) will track them to me with your disabled VCHIP that you assigned my number to!! Then you will laugh and dance in a hippie fashion while you infect my computer with 'The Anthrax'."

Yoshi, my friend, you are a huge tool.

- Pete


you're too slow. (none / 0) (#43)
by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:17:56 PM PST
Give me a break. It's not like I posted his IP token or anything. Of course, it's not like I could retreive it if I wanted to (which I wouldn't waste my time with), since he already removed his V-Chip anyway to log on with Linux.

Also, get a life. Your pompous and rancorous attitude of elitism is only highlighted with your immature mocking of others. I could just as easily predict your fabrication of information, but I'll leave it to you to demonstrate that.


IP Token? (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:31:58 PM PST
By that I assume you'll mean "IP Address." You posted his "Hostname" which can easily be resolved to his "IP token" or more correctly IP Address.

Look:

Here is adequacy.org's "IP Token"
66.180.229.40

TA-DA!!

Want to know how I did it? In Windows 2000, go to Start -> Run. Type in "cmd" and hit enter. At the prompt, type: "nslookup adequacy.org" and bang, you will have their "IP Token." This is a feature in both Windows 2000, and UNIX, and since you so carelessly posted my friend's hostname, any moron on this site can use the same procedure to get his "IP Token" and attack his machine.

Please, just take down the refernce to his hostname.

Thank you,

- Pete


Your assuming... (none / 0) (#50)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:42:23 PM PST
that Yoshi is useing Win 2000, Win98SE dosn't have 'nslookup' of course after reading most of Yoshi's posts I think he's useing the only known version of 'Microsft Bob' outside of Redmond, WA(now thats a nerd reference if I've ever written one)


oh yeah (none / 0) (#60)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:19:36 AM PST
Oh yes Microsoft 'Bob'. The shithole UI developed by Melinda Gates (Bill Gates' wife).

You could always use tracert.


 
Well, if he isn't . . . (none / 0) (#71)
by Tim Mathews on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 11:33:15 AM PST
then here is the technique for the rest of the windows line of OS's:
  1. Start -> Run
  2. Enter command
  3. At the C:\> enter: ping www.adequacy.org
  4. It will return a listing of : Reply from 66.180.229.40 and some other info that isn't really important to this discussion



 
On a serious note (none / 0) (#48)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:36:39 PM PST
Seriously Yoshi you should take it down (not the whole thing because it's a blast to read aloud at any job or comp sci class but the address is a security risk).
Look it's not like your exactly safe your self, one visit to any rootshell mirror and anyone who wants to can 'hack' your computer, XP Firewall isn't what you would call 'industry standard security'.
Yet all the 'hAXoRs" you have been pissing off have yet to post any personal information about your computer. Probably because we all feel deep down that if we can convince you maybe the rest of the world isn't as lost as they sometimes say.
Think 'Miracle on 31st Street' meets 'The Matrix'
The point is your compromising Tim's ISP (didn't he say he has a T1 which would make it his network), and seeing as you despise that sort of activity perhaps you can see to removing the address. Well just thought I'd try.
-Peace



Thanks (none / 0) (#49)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:39:45 PM PST
Thanks for the sentiment bro.

I know that I appreciate it, and I'm sure that Tim does too (although he's asleep now, I think).

Keeping fighting the good fight.

- Pete


I'm begining to think... (none / 0) (#52)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:47:35 PM PST
That we should just start treating Yoshi like the autistic kid in the sixth grade. Congratulate him when he uses big words, dry his chin with a towel when he dribbles on him self and try not to laugh when he craps in his pants, because he just doesn't know any better. Eh I got to stop reading this web site it's making me callus. I'm going to pray a blessing on this discussion group that none of us start to get short tempered in our real lives.


AMEN (none / 0) (#53)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:50:33 PM PST
I hear you on that one brother. This guy is a total dweed. I swear man, he's like the crazy smelly people I get who walk into my job and start babbling about how we're all tryoing to kill them, and that the government is run by secret families of chipmunks and shit. I hope that Yoshi at least knows how to shower.

- Pete


So true :) (none / 0) (#56)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:55:07 PM PST
You should see A Beautiful Mind, now THATS crazy ranting, of course John Nash was a genius despite his psychological problems to any similarity falls apart there, but hey it's a good movie.


Dear Sir, (none / 0) (#63)
by Martino Cortez PhD on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 07:12:16 AM PST
Get a life you low life twit. This is proof that Anonymous Reader is a multiple personaly low-life. Quit talking to yourself!

And don't give me that "Many people use Anonymous Reader" crap. If that was true, then they would all have different usernames. There is one and only one Anonymous Reader, and it's you you phychotic twat.


--
Dr Martino Cortez, PhD
CEO - Martin-Cortez Financial Corporation
Copyright 2002, Martino Cortez.

low life twit? (none / 0) (#74)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:29:58 PM PST
a PhD and that's your best defense?


 
Foolish Foolish Man (none / 0) (#86)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:39:09 PM PST
<P><I>If you do have one, you can post as "yourself" by filling in your nickname and password below. Otherwise, your comment will be posted as Anonymous Reader.</I></P>

<P>Thats from the post screen unregistered readers see. So as you can tell there isn't someone here named "Anonymous Reader", its the default named used for people without accounts. I didn't even have to leave this site to figure that one out. Try it. Log out and go post, you'll be presented with the message above.</P>
<BR>
Tim Mathews


Dammit! (none / 0) (#87)
by Tim Mathews on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:41:28 PM PST
Oops, I'm gotten so used to having "HTML Formatted" automatically selected, I forgot to change it, sorry. So we'll do this again as me.

If you do have one, you can post as "yourself" by filling in your nickname and password below. Otherwise, your comment will be posted as Anonymous Reader.

Thats from the post screen unregistered readers see. So as you can tell there isn't someone here named "Anonymous Reader", its the default named used for people without accounts. I didn't even have to leave this site to figure that one out. Try it. Log out and go post, you'll be presented with the message above.
Tim Mathews


Man...... (none / 0) (#90)
by Tim Mathews on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:55:10 PM PST
OK, now I'm going to attack my own careless spelling errors. I know I've attacked people for doing just that, but I'm just getting sloppy and it is poor form. That Opps, I'm gotten just grates on my nerves, its not one of those spelling errors that the human mind glosses over.

If I'm not mistaken this is based on Slashcode which is written in Perl, so adding a spellchecking function wouldn't be that difficult. In fact, if whomever's in charge here would be willing to let me, I'd be more than happy to help add it. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that there is a spell checking mod for Perl, a quick check of CPAN would confirm this.


Slashcode, that would be hilarious :) (none / 0) (#91)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 02:11:24 PM PST
Naw, this site is based on http://scoop.kuro5hin.org/ (notice the Scoop logo in the lower right hand side) It is a Unix app, not so sure it's Perl though, you are right though any half decent programmer could add such a feature. Kind of rules most people here out of that job :) Reason I think the slashcode thing is funny though is because they registered http://Slashdotsucks.com/ for this site :P


Well, that makes sense (none / 0) (#96)
by Tim Mathews on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 07:23:02 PM PST
And upon further research, I find that at the bottom of kuro5hin it says Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL. and although that doesn't exactly necessitate that this particular site runs on Linux or FreeBSD, there is a good chance that it does. At any rate the irony of that makes me laugh so hard it hurts.


I totally agree (none / 0) (#98)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 08:19:25 PM PST
And yes you got me on that one about Perl so it should be easy to work in ispell to this system. Oh yeah I saw your post about Learn V C++ in 21 days, I bought that book a week into my first programming job, one of the best ones ever. These days though I'm reading old Wait Group books like Build Your Own Flight Simulator in C++ and VR Creations.
-Jason


 
this site (none / 0) (#102)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 11:30:44 PM PST
Apache 1.3 on FreeBSD


 
here ya go (none / 0) (#101)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 11:29:32 PM PST
Scoop is a weblog script written in Perl with a MySQL backend. It is different then other weblogs, in that it allows the users to decide what stories get posted.

Perl Foundry

Development Status: 4 - Beta

Environment: Web Environment
Intended Audience: Developers, System Administrators
License: GNU General Public License (GPL)
Operating System: BSD, Linux, SunOS/Solaris
Programming Language: Perl
Topic: Message Boards



 
On "Thinking" in this chat... (none / 0) (#57)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:59:56 PM PST
aren't you in the wrong place if you're beginning to think?

- Pete


 
Anonymous-ness (none / 0) (#51)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:44:49 PM PST
I notice a lot of anonymous posters. I know I had trouble creating an account. Are other people having this same difficulty or do you really want to be anonymous?

- Pete


I read on scoop.kuro5hin.org (none / 0) (#54)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:51:22 PM PST
that this site was ranked second in number of registered users, that bothers me, the last thing I want is my registered ranting making this site more attractive to advertisers, because they have so many registered users telling Yoshi what a moron he is. Think of it as a lazy boycott.


Good reasoning (none / 0) (#55)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:53:31 PM PST
I'll tell you what, you sure have cornered the market on how to feel about this site.

Rock on!

- Pete


 
silly boy (none / 0) (#80)
by nathan on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:13:42 PM PST
the last thing I want is my registered ranting making this site more attractive to advertisers

Which advertisers would those be?

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
A few days to collect my thoughts (none / 0) (#59)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:43:15 AM PST
Two days ago I found this site from a post on Slashdot.com about the trend to register [companyname]sucks.com domains. Apparently someone had registered a slashdotsucks.com domain at it lead me here. Now I at first did not know how to take what I was reading, it seemed to far off base to be considered serious. Yet to my absolute surprise I began to realize that Yoshi is actually taking himself seriously.

Being a computer user since the tender age of 7 (my mom would take me with her to night classes, so my first time touching a keyboard was to a GWBASIC prompt) to today (a young excited 23-year-old eager to make a change in the world), I consider my self a bit knowledgeable in the ways of computing.

So naturally I attempted to correct a few (ha) factual errors when I had read that classic piece on the AMD bug and Linux (and 4K web sites). Now I'm a generally upbeat kind of person, the born again Christian in me tends to do that, which is why I was shocked to find that Yoshi and his collective user names (which I'm really beginning to doubt are other people agreeing with him, but instead him posting under different names) where really starting to get to me. I was genuinely getting angry, not only at the ignorance (which generally I can handle and just feel sorry for) but the arrogance. Further more I found myself checking back every 10 minutes or so just to see the next ill-informed statement Yoshi would make. I would even go so far as think through arguments while driving. The point is I don't need this none of us do.

Yoshi, the people who are speaking to you in this discussion group are doing so because it worries them that people like you exist. Deep down we are all hoping that some piece of logic would break though your fear of the outside world. We don't want to brainwash you, we would love for you to think for yourself, form your own opinions and stand on your own beliefs. It worries me how scared you are of the real world. So scared that you see backstabbing behind every corporate deal, that you see hate and anger in a community who has tried so vary hard to free society from intellectual elitism which closed source technology promotes. And so scared, Yoshi, that you worry that every link on the net might steal from you. That every software program has only malicious purposes. That fear in you is frightening, all of us Pete, Tim, myself (Jason in case you where wondering) and any other anonymous poster, hope some how that we can break though that fear so that you can see the world isn't as hateful and destructive as you think.
I am close to the end of my rope, it is 12:25 AM over here and I have a morning class. I will probably check back from time to time to give Pete and Tim props for trying so hard, but in time, Yoshi, this will end and people just won't try. That's about all I can say.
-Jason



I feel sorry... (none / 0) (#65)
by Yoshi on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 08:34:22 AM PST
You know, I really feel sorry for people like you. It really makes me sad how you, like every one of the Linux zealots posting to this thread, all follow the same strict regimine when posting their rant of dissent (to the facts, no less).

It always starts out with their credentials. "I've been working on computers for 16 years...", "I am a high paid UNIX college professor...". Well, let me tell you one thing, Bucko, all of the knowledge in the world won't buy you the truth you seek. For you have been brainwashed by the Linux zealots, as most are in the land of Academia, no surprise to me.

A lot of you try to make some sort of statement in hopes that I'm going to relate to you and feel bad for your factual misdeeds. Statements like "I'm a born again Christian," or "I'm a registered Republican" won't work on me, because despite those, you're also misguided at heart.

Then, the attacks start. If you honestly think I have the time to create multiple user names and post complimentary comments to my own posts, you've got to be kidding me. You see, not everyone is brainwashed like yourself, and the truth is not a long distance away for them. Much more than I can say for yourself.

The final part of every Linux zealot's anti-Adequacy rant comes complete with the final "hopes and desires" segment. You are no different. I know you "hope that some piece of logic" comes my way and brainwashes me to your side, but I'm stronger than that. I won't drop my Republican and anti-Communist morals just to join the dark side of Open Sauce zealots who want to overthrow Capitalism. I'm really sorry if this disappoints you, but I simply cannot diverge from the path of truth. If you do one day see the light, realize that the Communist movement is a farce, feel free to come back and apologize. I'll be waiting, because I have already seen the light, and am thankful.


Still Refusing (none / 0) (#73)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:22:19 PM PST
Yoshi,

You don't have to listen to me. All you have to do is find a book and read it.

Earlier you said you had experience as a "web and database programmer." Can you be more specific? Where did you work? Doing what and with what technologies?

Do you honestly think that we would be here to pester you? Because we get a good laugh of of spreading bad info? If you've honestly read RMS's stuff, you'll realize that the free software movement is all about helping out others, and FREELY SHARING INFORMATION. We are all here to help you be less-confused about computers. There is absolutely no malicious intent.

- Pete


Yeah, right. (none / 0) (#84)
by Yoshi on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:38:18 PM PST
Earlier you said you had experience as a "web and database programmer." Can you be more specific? Where did you work? Doing what and with what technologies?

Yeah, right. I'm going to tell you my websites so you can load up your Linux hacker tools and hack them offline. However, as to which technologies used, I did make extensive use of backend programming technologies and SQL databases. I'm not going to get specific as to which particular technologies they were, as I'm sure you have hacker backdoors for every one.

If you've honestly read RMS's stuff, you'll realize that the free software movement is all about helping out others, and FREELY SHARING INFORMATION.

Allow me to rewrite this into the Communist Manifesto:
If you've honestly read Marx's stuff, you'll realize that the Communist movement is all about helping out others, and FREELY SHARING WEALTH.


Blabbering (none / 0) (#97)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 08:16:46 PM PST
I'd really like ot understand how anything you just said responds to any of the points I brought up. Haven't you ever taken a logic/debate class?


Blabbering? (none / 0) (#109)
by nicething on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 10:09:09 PM PST
And I'd like to understand how anything YOU'VE said is useful or interesting. Haven't you ever taken a philosophy class?


 
That's only half the story (none / 0) (#68)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 10:43:12 AM PST
You see, osm started the V-Chip joke first. That would mean that Yoshi is osm's alter-ego.

However, I really don't believe that. osm doesn't particularly care when Microsoft is wittily derided here. But Yoshi just goes frothing at the mouth and blazes a stream of '1' ratings the moment anyone does a Redmond gag. It's a shame he has to resort to posting his deluded fantasies to "support" his beloved MSFT. He should perhaps try refreshingly honest Windows advocacy, like MessiahWWKD practises.


We've discussed this before. (none / 0) (#72)
by Yoshi on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:20:55 PM PST
osm started the V-Chip joke first.

Excuse me? osm was one of the first to go public with the knowledge. He wasn't the first to know about them, because the illegal hacker Linux underground were disabling them with their hacker OS long before that. osm deserves the credit for bringing the issue into the mainstream.

But Yoshi just goes frothing at the mouth and blazes a stream of '1' ratings the moment anyone does a Redmond gag.

That's nonsense. Rarely do I rate comments, and the comments that I rate are either the very best or the very worst. There are plenty of posts on this thread alone that are so misconstrued with falsities and misinformation that they deserve 1 ratings. I didn't waste my time doing that, though.

You Linux zealots are all alike. Everything that disproves their Communist operating system is henceforth false. Nothing we say that is in direct conflict with Linux could possibly be true, say the confused zealots. There's really no point in arguing with them, so any arguments made at all in rebuttal are merely for information's sake, and for the sake of the readers who may be reading this site and read one of their FUD filled posts.


come to think of it... (none / 0) (#75)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:30:55 PM PST
Yoshi,

I have been a Linux user for over a year. I have it on 3 computers, and not only have I never heard of a "V Chip" in my computers in any website, manual, television show, or other media, but I have certainly never "Disabled" one.

Have you opened a computer before Yoshi? Can you send out or post a diagram of this so-called V Chip and where it is located in your computer? How is it marked, and what does it do, exactly? Do you even have any documentation to back up this "common knowledge since such-and-such a time?"

Fondly,

- Pete


figures. (none / 0) (#88)
by Yoshi on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:44:55 PM PST
I have been a Linux user for over a year. [...] not only have I never heard of a "V Chip" in my computers [...], but I have certainly never "Disabled" one.

Earlier you said you praised Red Hat. It's no wonder. It's the mainstream distribution of Linux (why else would AOL contemplate purchasing it), so naturally it automatically overrides your V-Chip by writing to your modem's IEEEPROM 1394, essentially frying out the V-Chip. All of this is automatic and done during the initial setup.

How is it marked, and what does it do, exactly?

Do you honestly think 3COM is going to label "VCHIP HERE" on their modems, so you linux hackers can pry it off? Before Red Hat started frying them automatically, that's what you zealots had to do. Go look up a diagram somewhere at one of your underground hacker sites if you don't believe me.


Ouch, I fell out of my chair (none / 0) (#92)
by Tim Mathews on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 02:57:34 PM PST
by writing to your modem's IEEEPROM 1394, essentially frying out the V-Chip

Yoshi has written some extremely humorous stuff here the past few days, but this one takes the cake. He has confused and melded no less than three different things into one, amazing!

First, the IEEE is a non-profit, technical professional association of more than 350,000 individual members in 150 countries. Through its members, the IEEE is a leading authority in technical areas ranging from computer engineering, biomedical technology and telecommunications, to electric power, aerospace and consumer electronics, among others. That's right off their website.

Second, an EPROM or EEPROM, and this is what Yoshi is trying to define is, as it's name implies, an Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.

Third, 1394, or IEEE standard 1394 is the standard that defines firewire, a highspeed data transfer mechanism for communicating with things like camcorders and the like. It is an open, cross platform standard like USB, only much faster that is used by Macintosh computers, PC type computers, and highend workstations like those from Sun Microsystems and SGI.

This is a good one, no doubt from reading all those PC Magazines and only remembering enough to get confused.

P.S. If this suddenly shows up a lot, it is because I kept getting a "Form Key Invalid" error, so I just opened up a new window, refreshed a few times to make sure it didn't show up and now am posting it hopefully for the first time


 
Ahem... (none / 0) (#79)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:59:10 PM PST
You Linux zealots are all alike.

At what point did I mention Linux? You Windows children are all alike - anything even slightly damning about Microsoft and straight away it's "Oh you must be a Linux zealot". As if anyone needed to use Linux to realise just how shoddy Windows is. Jingoistic McCarthyism isn't going to win you any friends or convert anyone to your pro-Windows agenda.


 
Lets start over (not what you think) (none / 0) (#76)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:41:52 PM PST
Since Yoshi has displayed no ability to remove topics of discussion, I can't think of a better place to start a Linux discussion. For me my first distribution was Slackware 3.4, I bought it from CDROM.Com for $34.95. Yeah yeah I know what your thinking, Paying for FREE software, well I had a modem back then and didn't want to download it. That would have been 6 years ago (I think, maybe only 5). Slackware still ranks as my all time favorite (currently I am Linuxless, doing a Database app for my Community College and it needs to run on their Win2000 server, but when I reinstall Linux it will be Slackware) Any one else have a fav distro?
-Jason



Distros (none / 0) (#78)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 12:52:25 PM PST
Hands down, I have to say Red Hat.

I know it's rather "generic" but it always gets the job done for me. It's a snap to install, and it comes with a whole lot of neat little utilities that are well documented. Seriously, when you go to a book store looking for Linux books, you always find "Red Hat Linux 7.1 Unleashed."

I run linux on 3 machines: a dual-booting Win98/RedHat 7.2 PIII 500, a PII 400 RedHat 7.2 server, and a Quad-Processor SPARCstation 20 (RedHat 6.2 for SPARC)

- Pete


Quad Processor! (none / 0) (#81)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 01:23:31 PM PST
Wow, impressive system. I understand the value of Red Hat, your right it's got a lot of industry standard support. I'm not totally down with the whole graphical configure tools (I think it's called rhconfig) for everything, slackware had this Bash script called pppsetup, which always worked for me when I had a modem, plus I can't stand how they alias the 'rm' command to prompt you for every download when you batch download.

I know that the goal is to make Linux more accessible, and easier to support but in that department I don't think they go far enough (at least for desktops which an area Linux is only testing these days it seems)

I tried about 3 years ago to make my own distro (didn't get far, needed to learn a lot more before I could ever finish it) called SimpeLinux. The goal was to make Linux more accessible to laypeople, mainly by suppressing Kernel boot up messages and making configuration a bit easier by converting a bunch of core applications (like bash, cron ect) to use XML config files making centralized configuration easier. Then I saw the LinuxConf project and called my work off.

There is a lot of power in Open Source but only a handful of people are using it (it seems). Windows is farther along in the process at some things like multiple layers of complexity.

Here is what I mean by that. Both Yoshi and say yourself can use the same computer for totally different reasons and find what you're looking for reasonably close to you. This is because Windows has created a series of entry points for multiple types of users with multiple amounts of experience. Linux seems to lack that in many ways, for a server OS that's fine because only the people who want to use Linux like that will, but for a Desktop OS it's intimidating. Now Microsoft has melded these entry points rather well so that only the most professional users complain about Windows short comings and only the most inane computer users complain about it's complexity. Notice Microsoft's trend to further dumb down it's interface with each consumer level OS it releases (ignore Bob) each time they do they capture more and more people. They also manage to do this with out pushing people off the top of the user food chain because they always (ok most of the time) open up the API's for how they automate the system so power users can skip all the annoying dialog boxes and write their own auto-configuring applications or system tweaking tools or what not. Of course Linux has this feature built in because it's open source but I really think there needs to be some broader standard for configuration accessibility and XML seems perfect for that purpose. Well this post is way to long with out some input, what do you think?
-Jason



Er... (none / 0) (#99)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 08:21:35 PM PST
Complete brain fart in that first paragraph, I meant to say deleting not downloading.


 
rm fix (none / 0) (#107)
by Tim Mathews on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 02:47:55 PM PST
plus I can't stand how they alias the 'rm' command to prompt you for every [delete] when you batch [delete].

The fix for that is simple enough, you can either use the -f switch, i.e. rm -f <file> or you can edit ~/.bashrc and remove the line alias rm='rm -i'. However, I would recomend the first option, and definately leave the alias line alone in root's .bashrc. You wouldn't want to accidently wipe the system with a command like rm -rf /. Of course supplying the -f overrides the -i, so just don't delete /. Bad things happen.


 

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