My Chat With Tim Mathews

I logged on to the Slashnet server with my mIRC application and before long, I got a "private message" from Tim Mathews, referred to from now on as timmat. The log posted below is in its entirety, for the betterment of the community.

Session Start: Tue Jan 22 20:42:08 2002
[8:42:08 PM] Session Ident: timmat (~adenied@pcp229287pcs.catonv01.md.comcast.net)
[8:42:08 PM] <timmat> hi, are you Yoshi from adequacy?
[8:42:19 PM] <Yoshi> Indeed so
[8:42:37 PM] <timmat> ah, well I'd be Tim, the one posting against you
[8:42:49 PM] <Yoshi> ah, so you are the confused one
[8:42:57 PM] <Yoshi> howdy
[8:43:08 PM] <timmat> howdy
[8:43:18 PM] <timmat> we can start with being confused, ok.
[8:43:39 PM] <timmat> can you give me some links referring to ASP?
[8:44:09 PM] <timmat> not MS's ASP, but the assembled site pages you refer too
[8:44:18 PM] <Yoshi> do you want me to do all of your work for you so you can go back to your web development company with the newfound ASP knowledge that you didn't even work for?
[8:44:23 PM] <Yoshi> come on, you're better than that
[8:44:50 PM] <timmat> no, actually i don't work for anyone, I just read some web publishing mags and do a little work on my own site
[8:44:51 PM] <Yoshi> you ought to join us in #adequacy however..
[8:44:58 PM] <timmat> mm'k
[8:52:10 PM] <timmat> well, i seem to have been kicked by bc, so shall we continue here?
[8:52:28 PM] <Yoshi> sounds good
[8:52:41 PM] <Yoshi> memory paging isn't a secret now that AMD stole it from Intel
[8:53:01 PM] <timmat> it never was a secret, and intel didn't invent it
[8:53:38 PM] <Yoshi> a secret, perhaps not, but a revolutionary idea, indeed it was
[8:53:47 PM] <Yoshi> because only Intel forsaw the need for web pages >4kb large
[8:53:59 PM] <Yoshi> it was still the hayday of the web, only they saw the future
[8:54:03 PM] <timmat> ok, can you explain to me how as you see it, memory paging works?
[8:54:29 PM] <timmat> er, how memory paging works? my mind works faster than my hands
[8:55:29 PM] <timmat> the first intel chip with paging was the 80386, which was invented around 1987, well before the NSF was allowing just anyone on the internet
[8:55:55 PM] <Yoshi> It's quite simple, really. The chip helps calculate all of the little A HREF tags and URLs, but caps out at 4KB before the pentium, so the computer would freeze
[8:56:36 PM] <Yoshi> not just any support for pages, but pages as large as 4Mb
[8:58:25 PM] <timmat> no, what reads them is the web browser, netscape, internet explorer, opera, etc
[8:58:52 PM] <Yoshi> yeah, but the processor helps them out, much in the same way that MMX extensions help out DirectX
[8:58:53 PM] <timmat> the web browser runs on top of the OS, which in turn is run on the CPU
[8:59:45 PM] <timmat> directX takes advantage of special processor op. codes, html doesn't in anyway use any special built in functions
[9:00:50 PM] <Yoshi> it doesn't, but the processor detects it and aids its speed anyway, much like ATI aids Quake 3
[9:00:57 PM] <timmat> you really should read some books on programming theory, if you don't trust the linux people, get SAM's Teach Yourself Visual C++ in 21 days.
[9:01:44 PM] <Yoshi> I'll consult the MSDN documentation which is far more thorough
[9:02:26 PM] <timmat> most likey it is.
[9:05:19 PM] <timmat> also, why won't you believe that netscape invented JavaScript. Its on their developer page, its on Sun's Java FAQ page, its in the first chapter of every book i've ever seen about JavaScript
[9:05:47 PM] <timmat> just admit that you made a mistake about MS inventing it, and we can move on from that
[9:06:12 PM] <Yoshi> that's absurd, they like to take the credit for it, but Microsoft developed it and released it first in Internet Explorer. At that time, Netscape had a much larger market share, so its first large exposure was when Netscape licensed the APIs from Microsoft.
[9:07:53 PM] <timmat> can you show me that on microsoft's website, if netscape is indeed lying, MS would certainly be upset about it
[9:08:48 PM] <Yoshi> there are plenty of times other companies steal Microsoft's inventions and take credit for it, Microsoft has grown rather apathetic to it now since appropriate credit isn't necessary as long as they have the superior product.
[9:09:30 PM] <timmat> i keep giving you proof of my points, you haven't given any in support of your's, you skirt around the issue, saying i should do my own research, or my links will steal your credit card number
[9:09:56 PM] <timmat> if windows was as secure as you claim, you wouldn't worry about some rouge website stealling your CC info
[9:10:06 PM] <Yoshi> I have seen none too few times where other innocent Microsoft defenders were defrauded by the open source zealots
[9:10:45 PM] <timmat> give me an example, please one example of each of your points, I'll concede the argument to you and it will be done with
[9:11:21 PM] <Yoshi> I've already explained my points thoroughly and provided irrefutable knowledge to back it up
[9:13:19 PM] <timmat> What knowledge? Your own? You have given me nothing backing up your paging theory, or anything about your version of ASP, or this supposed "V-chip" in modems, or how linux violates the DMCA, or any of that
[9:14:56 PM] <Yoshi> Processor memory paging has been common knowledge since the early 90s, ASP was put into place to compensate for AMD's deficiencies, and everyone knows about v-chips and Linux's overriding of them to hide critical IP token information
[9:15:48 PM] <timmat> dammit! everyone? who? show me a website, refer me to some document, a court order, a legal ruling, something! anything?
[9:16:14 PM] <timmat> I'm on linux and I'm not hiding a damn thing, you can ping me if you want and see for yourself
[9:17:34 PM] <timmat> and what of the other free, open source OS's such as BSD, plan9, inferno, etc. mind you plan9 and inferno were both developed at lucent.
[9:17:40 PM] <Yoshi> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=comments;sid=2001/12/19/21302/725;cid=62#62
[9:17:58 PM] <Yoshi> so long as they disable the V-chip, they're illegal and should be exterminated
[9:20:31 PM] <timmat> what you've given is a post from someone who shares your views. can you show me a link on MS's website about V-chips or maybe on 3com's website?
[9:20:45 PM] <timmat> btw, where do you get all your info?
[9:21:04 PM] <Yoshi> PC magazines
[9:21:46 PM] <timmat> such as?
[9:22:03 PM] <timmat> I know damned well PC magazine wouldn't publish that.
[9:22:20 PM] <Yoshi> well I've got PC Magazine and PC World on my desk now
[9:22:23 PM] <Yoshi> ever read John C. Dvorak?
[9:22:25 PM] <timmat> http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/
[9:22:33 PM] <timmat> i think you should go there and read that
[9:23:03 PM] <timmat> the government uses linux, they have released open source code that anyone can download and read, modify, etc.
[9:23:18 PM] <timmat> does this make the NSA a subversive terrorist organization?
[9:23:19 PM] <Yoshi> thanks to Bill Clinton and all of the other Communism-embracing liberals
[9:23:52 PM] <timmat> communism is about as far from liberalism as you can get
[9:23:55 PM] <Yoshi> would any American-loving patriot allow Usama to prosper in his caves for eight years without doing anything to stop them? Of course I would
[9:23:59 PM] <Yoshi> tell that to Robert Reich
[9:26:39 PM] <timmat> you see, communism is all about acting as a group, being one and sharing, not keeping anything for yourself. Liberalism on the otherhand is oriented towards the individual, the primary tenant of liberalism is to not limit anyones rights unless they infringe on a higher right of someone else.
[9:27:37 PM] <Yoshi> hmm, both definitions fit the GNU project
[9:28:51 PM] <timmat> what exactly is wrong with the GNU project? It doesn't prevent you from selling GNU/Linux, infact there are a lot of linux distros out there that cost several thousand
[9:29:31 PM] <Yoshi> precisely its motto to bring communism into the American mainstream
[9:31:59 PM] <timmat> where are you getting this?
[9:32:26 PM] <Yoshi> straight from the goals of RMS's page
[9:33:18 PM] <Yoshi> here's another article about RMS you should read: http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/29/95736/251
[9:33:37 PM] <timmat> RMS is a member of the ACLU. Is that a communist organization?
[9:33:46 PM] <Yoshi> absolutely
[9:34:00 PM] <Yoshi> it's as communist as it gets
[9:36:01 PM] <timmat> and how is offering linux for free violating any copy protection? the point of linux was and continues to be the fact that it is a free OS
[9:36:20 PM] <timmat> It was *meant* to be copyied
[9:36:48 PM] <Yoshi> that's not the issue, the issue is Linux's ability to override a user's internal V-Chip in their modem so they can launch their DOS attacks against unsuspecting websites
[9:37:28 PM] <timmat> You do realize that you can launch a DoS attack from a windows machine just as easily?
[9:37:51 PM] <timmat> in fact probably easier since the programming has already been done for you
[9:38:06 PM] <Yoshi> that's because Windows has DOS built into it. You can still tracert where they come from with windows DOS programs, but with Linux DOS programs, you can't because the V-Chip is gone
[9:38:56 PM] <timmat> DOS is an OS, Disk Operating System. DoS is a cheap internet hack, Denial of Service, there is a huge difference.
[9:39:31 PM] <timmat> if i ping you and you're running a decent firewall you can see it, if you'd like i'll demonstrate
[9:40:00 PM] <Yoshi> that's quite okay, I am confident you already hacked your V-Chip off and would cause my computer to start dialing into Yahoo or something
[9:40:38 PM] <timmat> you can't dial into Yahoo! Dammit, you're being stubborn and you know it.
[9:41:12 PM] <timmat> There isn't a damned V-Chip in my T-1 DSU/CSU.
[9:41:42 PM] <Yoshi> much in the same way that there isn't a serial number on my pentium 3
[9:41:47 PM] <Yoshi> you illegally disabled it, though
[9:41:49 PM] <timmat> A V-Chip is a little device in TV's that allowed parents to block certain channels that they shouldn't have signed up for in the first place
[9:42:01 PM] <Yoshi> now you're just making stuff up
[9:42:11 PM] <timmat> I'm making stuff up?
[9:42:33 PM] <timmat> http://www.fcc.gov/vchip/
[9:42:45 PM] <timmat> there's the FCC's V-Chip website
[9:43:21 PM] <Yoshi> so I'll click on that website link and be redirected to the FCC website with your IP token information embedded with your 'ping'?
[9:43:29 PM] <Yoshi> thus, I am the one to get the blame for hacking my modem's vchip
[9:44:07 PM] <timmat> no, you won't. really. ping is a program used to see if a network route is up, you have it on your computer
[9:44:24 PM] <timmat> and you're not going to hack anything, because there isn't anything there to be hacked
[9:45:05 PM] <Yoshi> I wouldn't be the type to do that anyway. I'm sure your ping program left your IP token on my v-chip so it's easily detectable by the FCC when I go to their website though
[9:45:30 PM] <timmat> i never pinged you, you said not to and I didn't
[9:46:00 PM] <Yoshi> there's no way I can be confident
[9:46:44 PM] <timmat> i guess not, but then you could have a little faith in your fellow citizen, no?
[9:47:27 PM] <Yoshi> well that pretty much sums it up, I can never be sure what lengths the linix zealots go to to evade and cover their own tracks
[9:47:53 PM] <Yoshi> for all I know, you could have been using DOS programs against amazon and are planning on turning me into the FCC with your pings
[9:49:02 PM] <timmat> don't you understand how ping works?
[9:49:19 PM] <timmat> or how the amazon people would track down any attack?
[9:49:43 PM] <Yoshi> well they obviously couldn't if you disable the V-chip in your modem
[9:50:19 PM] <Yoshi> but by transferring that information to me, clearly I would be in the line of offense by the FCC and Amazon lawyers when I am nothing more than a law abiding Windows user
[9:51:26 PM] <timmat> yes they could. the closest thing i can figure to what your talking about is the MAC address of ethernet cards. That is a permenant unique number that cannot be changed or overriden. if it is, you can connet to any network because no other computer knows how to talk to you
[9:52:17 PM] <Yoshi> no, I have a PC, all of which utilize the V-chip technology
[9:52:46 PM] <timmat> and there isn't a mac address in dialup modems because they create a direct point-to-point connection with your ISP and then they assign you an IP for the duration of your being online, and the computer that you connect to at the ISP has a mac address that you likewise borrow for the interim that you are online
[9:53:19 PM] <timmat> i have a PC as well, it just happens to run linux, and its not overriding anything
[9:54:05 PM] <Yoshi> no kidding, that works all well and good for us dialup users running Windows machines without the competing Macintosh address technology, the V-chip provides crucial data to aid the FBI in locating hackers
[9:54:47 PM] <Yoshi> but Linux disables this technology and thus allows hackers to go untraced by the feds
[9:55:03 PM] <timmat> it has nothing to do with a macintosh, the MAC stands for media access control
[9:55:22 PM] <timmat> network cards had that long before the machintosh computer existed
[9:55:35 PM] <timmat> the fbi runs linux
[9:55:39 PM] <Yoshi> I don't have the time to sit here and read your lies
[9:55:45 PM] <timmat> what lies?
[9:56:09 PM] <Yoshi> all of your Macintosh address balogna
[9:56:48 PM] <timmat> ITS NOT A MACINTOSH ADDRESS
[9:57:18 PM] <timmat> http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/MAC_address.html
[9:57:21 PM] <timmat> look there
[9:57:36 PM] <timmat> oh, wait. you won't follow the links i give you
[9:57:49 PM] <Yoshi> if you're going to get hostile, I think it's time for our discussion to come to an end. I tried to tolerate and debate your lies as much as I can, but you've been making up terminology and technology the whole way through, it's getting frustrating
[9:58:05 PM] <timmat> i'm not making anything up
[9:58:23 PM] <timmat> please feel free to do a search on yahoo or google for any of the terms i have used
[9:58:54 PM] <timmat> if you don't trust my links, OK, but maybe you'll feel safe getting them from a search engine?
[9:58:56 PM] <Yoshi> you feel really confident that I'd find the results, you didn't scam one of the sites up to the top of the list, did you?
[9:59:33 PM] <timmat> i apologize for yelling, and no i didn't
[9:59:48 PM] <timmat> i honestly wouldn't know where to start to do something like that
[10:00:35 PM] <Yoshi> I understand completely
[10:02:16 PM] <Yoshi> I've got to leave now, but I enjoyed our little conversation and I hope I taught you a little bit that will come in handy for your web development business
[10:02:45 PM] <timmat> I still don't know what assembled site pages are
[10:03:31 PM] <Yoshi> would you object to posting a portion of this log for public viewing, in case you feel others may benefit from this debate between my facts and your perpetuated myths?
[10:04:08 PM] <timmat> post all you want, i hopw you will allow me to print it and show it to some of the sys admins i know?
[10:04:18 PM] <timmat> and maybe a few comp sci teachers.
[10:04:56 PM] <Yoshi> absolutely, but feel free to replace my name with yours if you don't want to be credited towards the bunk arguments that you mentioned earlier
[10:05:07 PM] <timmat> cute
[10:05:19 PM] <Yoshi> I hope to talk to you later, goodnight

	oh well (none / 0) (#1)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 08:31:12 PM PST

	It's funny how you site PC Magazine and PC World. I have been reading them for years and not seen anything pathetic like that. Maybe you could point out specific issue numbers. Then I could simply visit their websites and read the back issues. While John C. Dvorak is good but I also like reading Extreme Tech by Bill Machrone. You didn't teach him anything. You still come off like an idiot. MAC address has nothing to do with Macintosh computers. You have sited sources (PC Magazine and PC World). I am an avid reader and have been to the websites and found nothing that would support your stupidity. Oh wqait, you won't provide links because you don't wanna bother to do someone else research. The simpy truth is that you can't find anything to support the garbage you spout off so you dance around the subject. And by the way, I am confused as to why you would read magazine that have such strong linux supporters. Oh maybe you didn't catch the issue of PC Magazine that was almost complete dedicated to Linux (Chossing Linux, Nov 2001). Perhaps you missed the January 2002 issue with a big picture of Red Hat Linux on the cover surrounded by the words 'Best Products for 2002'. Of course my favorite was the '2nd PC Revolution' (Sept 2001). I love that timeline snipet near that back that makes all of you look like idiots.

	dear sir (none / 0) (#2)
	by nathan on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 08:49:56 PM PST

	Your spelling and grammar problems weaken your argument. Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	is it possible... (none / 0) (#3)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 08:59:47 PM PST

	to construct a better response? One that doesn't sink to simply attacking spelling and grammar.

	depends. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
	by nathan on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 09:15:31 PM PST

	Is it possible to construct a better post? One that doesn't suck? Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	Sure (2.50 / 2) (#8)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 10:21:42 PM PST

	When it's possible to come to this website and it doesn't blow.

	No (none / 0) (#9)
	by T Reginald Gibbons on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 12:41:43 AM PST

	To do that, it would be necessary to wade through your spelling errors and poor grammar. Nobody has the time or the incentive.

	and... (none / 0) (#22)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:33:48 PM PST

	Factual errors, such as ones presented by Yoshi, will weaken any argument.

	I should get a medal. (none / 0) (#23)
	by nathan on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:45:31 PM PST

	These open source advocates defy belief. You try to gently, politely, lead them to improving their writing, and how do they respond? They label you as an adversary. Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	Thats odd (none / 0) (#44)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:19:21 PM PST

	Someone else with the same beliefs as Yoshi.. Yoshi, you aren't making new accounts to pretend you have friends are you?

	Oh my God. (none / 0) (#93)
	by hauntedattics on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 04:41:48 PM PST

	Someone with the same beliefs as Yoshi! Call the thought police! Yep, I'm Yoshi too. Yoshi is everywhere. Be very afraid.

	see what I mean? (none / 0) (#103)
	by nathan on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 08:55:21 AM PST

	I have not professed Yoshi's opinions (I am not rejecting them either, but that is nothing to do with this argument.) I merely took issue with slovenly grammar and spelling, which is a form of cultural terrorism; then, along comes an AR and conflates my defense of the English language with an assault on Linux zealots. Linux zealots suck. Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	What a nerd. (none / 0) (#4)
	by Yoshi on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 09:03:15 PM PST

	Yeah, if I kept a bookshelf of all of the old issues as a shrine to gkdom, I'd certainly get the back issue numbers for you. Alas, tis not true. I purchase the issues with the flashy colors on the newsstands, read them, and throw them away. MAC address has nothing to do with Macintosh computers. That's absurd. You know how vigorous Jobs protects his trademarks, do you really think he'd let something like this slide by? Of course it's an Apple creation. The simpy truth is that you can't find anything to support the garbage you spout off so you dance around the subject. That's absolute nonsense. If you bothered to read the log in its entirety, you'd note several instances in which I provided links to external sources which backed me up. Oh maybe you didn't catch the issue of PC Magazine that was almost complete dedicated to Linux (Chossing Linux, Nov 2001). Again, I purchase issues from the newsstands as to not waste my money on issues which clearly would not interest me. I highly doubt that such a publication would give such devotion to an illegal OS, however. Was this a cover story or one of those 'back-alley' ads that slipped into the back and went unnoticed by the editors? Perhaps you missed the January 2002 issue with a big picture of Red Hat Linux on the cover surrounded by the words 'Best Products for 2002'. I've got the Janyuary (15,) 2002 issue right here, Bubba, and the symbiotic Red Linux box with the Fedora and hidden Hammer and Sickle are all there (it's like one of those Magic Eye boards from way back in the day). The picture doesn't measure more than an inch by an inch, and is far outshadowed by the more revolutionary designs on the cover, such as the Journada Pocket PC 2002 displaying a great big Windows logo. Of course my favorite was the '2nd PC Revolution' (Sept 2001). I love that timeline snipet near that back that makes all of you look like idiots.** What a nerd.

	here we go (none / 0) (#6)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 22nd, 2002 at 09:35:58 PM PST

	Yeah, if I kept a bookshelf of all of the old issues as a shrine to gkdom, I'd certainly get the back issue numbers for you. Why not simply go to the websites then? That's absurd. You know how vigorous Jobs protects his trademarks, do you really think he'd let something like this slide by? Of course it's an Apple creation. Apparently you don't know much about networking do you? MAC is an acronym which stands for Media Acess Control. Mac (notice the difference) is NOT an acronym. It's simply short for Macintosh. MAC address The unique serial number burned into Ethernet and Token Ring adapters that identifes that network card from all others. Short for Media Access Control address, a hardware address that uniquely identifies each node of a network. In IEEE 802 networks, the Data Link Control (DLC) layer of the OSI Reference Model is divided into two sublayers: the Logical Link Control (LLC) layer and the Media Access Control (MAC) layer. The MAC layer interfaces directly with the network media. Consequently, each different type of network media requires a different MAC layer. On networks that do not conform to the IEEE 802 standards but do conform to the OSI Reference Model, the node address is called the Data Link Control (DLC) address. If you bothered to read the log in its entirety, you'd note several instances in which I provided links to external sources which backed me up. I have read it. The only sources you provided were from your own writing. Either that or you rambled on about "it's a lie MS did this and so and so did that". You didn't provide links except to other adequacy.org stories by people that believe the same idiocies you do. Never once when you claimed MS did this or that did you link to a reference. How simple would it have been to link to a Microsoft website? Was this a cover story or one of those 'back-alley' ads that slipped into the back and went unnoticed by the editors? I don't know. What do consider almost the enitre second half of the issue? I've got the Janyuary (15,) 2002 issue right here, Bubba, and the symbiotic Red Linux box with the Fedora and hidden Hammer and Sickle are all there (it's like one of those Magic Eye boards from way back in the day). Gee turn to page 94 and there it is again. And did you read the web server comparisons? IIS really didn't do all the fabulous now did it?

	get your facts straight (none / 0) (#10)
	by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 04:36:27 AM PST

	Why not simply go to the websites then? I do. I refuse to go to any of your hacker websites like "LinuxToday" and other various sites promoting terrorism and violation of the DMCA, however. MAC is an acronym which stands for Media Acess Control. Mac (notice the difference) is NOT an acronym. It's simply short for Macintosh. No, you're completely wrong and have your facts messed up. The Macintosh address was Steve Jobs' answer to the V-chip. Since we all know Steve Jobs believes in piracy and copyright theft (ever seen an iPod commercial? NO copy protection), his 'rival' product carries only two segments of IP token information. The first segment contains the "port" of the computer, which may constantly change to help evade the hacker detection software run by Amazon and Yahoo. The second segment is a segment known as V92, which is a special protocol to alllow secret encrypted communications between other users with a Macintosh address. How simple would it have been to link to a Microsoft website? Give me a break. I'm willing to bet that any knowledgeable computer expert would back me up on any misconceptions you have mentioned. I can't wait until timmat comes back from showing it to his "professors". What do consider almost the enitre second half of the issue? Well, there are ads, classified ads, and that one Backspace segment. Gee turn to page 94 and there it is again. When I turn to page 94, I see a great big flashy picture of the Windows XP holographic disc and an exerpt on its features. IIS really didn't do all the fabulous now did it? According to that chart, it looks like IIS has more features than any other web server. Perhaps you misread it.

	oh man (none / 0) (#12)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:23:17 AM PST

	I do. I refuse to go to any of your hacker websites like "LinuxToday" and other various sites promoting terrorism and violation of the DMCA, however. Then why not visit sites like www.pcmag.com or www.pcworld.com? Then post some links to this supposed information that backs up your idiotic claims. I'm not even going to delv into your argument about MAC address. "Ports" and "V92"? So you don't trust ports huh? Then don't visit any way pages because to call up a web page you utilize HTTP (port 80). And don't buy a modem which uses V90 or the newer V92 (this includes WINMODEMS) as you'll have a pain in the ass time connecting to any damned thing. And don't get me started on how Apple successfully sued Micro$haft for stealing ideas and implementing them into Windows 1.0 and later paid Apple $150 million to shut up. Give me a break. I'm willing to bet that any knowledgeable computer expert would back me up on any misconceptions you have mentioned. Then it should be so easy for you to provide a link to any technical website including your beloved Micro$haft. It's funny how I can visit any tech website (inluding MS sites) and pull up information that debunks your claims and post the links. You however can do nothing. Well, there are ads, classified ads, and that one Backspace segment And which particular issue are you looking at? According to that chart, it looks like IIS has more features than any other web server. Perhaps you misread it. Funny, looks more like iPlanet and Apache have more features. Amazing how IIS didn't get editor's pick. It was closely ranked with iPlanet from Sun Microsystems. Oh look Zeus Web Server (which only runs on unices) was Editor's Pick, got 5/5 all around and outperformed IIS.

	he wishes (none / 0) (#13)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 06:41:45 AM PST

	He only wishes he had some knowledge. Of course he's just another novice luser. So he compensates by making stuff up as he goes completely avoiding questions. He must be a good dancer because he can dance around the issue. I mean this is guy that doesn't know the difference between Netscape-Enterprise web server and Netscape Navigator brower. Yeah, a website powered by a browser. If that's not a clear case in point to discredit everything Netcraft stands for, I don't know what is. Tell me when you've got real information. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I know the issue you are referring to. I also know the issue with the web server comparisons. From the January, 2002 issue If you want a inexpensive, easy-to-use Web server and are comfortable with hewing to Microsoft-centric strategy that includes *Active Server Pages* (ASP), COM+, and Visual Studio, then IIS holds a lot of appeal. In that same issue under Apache The venerable Apache HTTP Server is an open-source success story that's still behind more than half of all Web sites, according to the latest *Netcraft* survey numbers. Keep 'em comin' Yoshi. I could always use another good laugh!

	sigh (none / 0) (#16)
	by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:27:20 AM PST

	I mean this is guy that doesn't know the difference between Netscape-Enterprise web server and Netscape Navigator brower. What the hell are you talking about? I go to Netscape's website and click Download. What do I see? "Netscape 6.2". I don't see any of your fabricated "Netscape-Enterprise" balogna. I don't even see this "Netscape Navigator" junk either, so I'm just going to assume you're making up stuff. If you want a inexpensive, easy-to-use Web server and are comfortable with hewing to Microsoft-centric strategy that includes Active Server Pages (ASP), COM+, and Visual Studio, then IIS holds a lot of appeal. Simple editorial fact checking would have prevented this error. I already explained other critical errors with the IIS review that PC Magazine made. The venerable Apache HTTP Server is an open-source success story that's still behind more than half of all Web sites, according to the latest Netcraft survey numbers. I believe the Apache Marketshare myth has already been disproven here before, as has Netcraft's clear fraud in this area.

	troll alert (none / 0) (#15)
	by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:01:19 AM PST

	Then why not visit sites like www.pcmag.com or www.pcworld.com? Then post some links to this supposed information that backs up your idiotic claims. They don't have the same commentary posted there. What incentive do you have to buy the magazine if you can read the insight of John C. Dvorak online? So you don't trust ports huh? Then don't visit any way pages because to call up a web page you utilize HTTP (port 80). And don't buy a modem which uses V90 or the newer V92 (this includes WINMODEMS) as you'll have a pain in the ass time connecting to any damned thing. Wrong. I don't have to worry about those V-chip data packet clones because I don't have a Macintosh addressable modem. And don't get me started on how Apple successfully sued Micro$haft for stealing ideas and implementing them into Windows 1.0 and later paid Apple $150 million to shut up. Give me a break. Everyone knows that Windows was under development long before Apple was even incorporated as a company. I can visit any tech website (inluding MS sites) and pull up information that debunks your claims and post the links. Well, whatever you need to do to back up your "facts". I provide you with valuable insight, you can go the route of links if you wish to outsource your ideas. And which particular issue are you looking at? Every single issue. Funny, looks more like iPlanet and Apache have more features. Seriously. Where the fuck are you looking? Page 114, I swear to god, count up the little black dots. IIS wins hands down on a feature count. Are you illiterate, blind, or both? Your severe ignorance is frustrating. It was closely ranked with iPlanet from Sun Microsystems. Look at the negatives that they list. Problematic security history? Evidentally the author didn't look at the bug reports for Apache. I swear to god, every single fucking week there is a new exploit for Directory Traversal or whatever. "Vendor lock-in"? Great, you're locked into a robust OS that has every feature you'd need. That's right, a free web and FTP server bundled with the OS. I don't see that from Zeus. "Limited fine tuning?" Apparently this author has never used ISAPI. Absolute bunk. Remember, take what you read in magazines with a grain of salt. John C. Dvorak is trustworthy, but most of these authors are greasy Linux hackers in disguise.

	You should study your history (none / 0) (#19)
	by Tim Mathews on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:33:49 AM PST

	Give me a break. Everyone knows that Windows was under development long before Apple was even incorporated as a company. The first place you may want to start when learning about the progression of the OS for personal computers may be the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley" released first on TNT and later on VHS, I know you'll say its all a fabrication, it has to be because of it's title. Well then try the book "Fire in the Valley" another good book on the history of the personal computer and you will see that MacOS was developed and released before Microsoft had any notion of developing something like that. So, don't say that windows came first, it didn't. MacOS wasn't the first either for that matter, they copied off of Xerox's PARC research facility which invented, among other things ethernet and the graphical OS. Xerox didn't want to market it so Apple stepped in and made their own. The court records are available.

	Yoshi in Hollywood (none / 0) (#25)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 08:02:37 PM PST

	Yoshi would make a great Hollywood writer. They don't know shit either. Computer Movies Suck

	HAHAHA! (none / 0) (#42)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 11:16:27 PM PST

	If Hackers 2 comes out I know exactly who to blame! :)

	Scriptwriters don't know shit? (none / 0) (#61)
	by RobotSlave on Thu Jan 24th, 2002 at 06:17:56 AM PST

	Tell me, if hollywood screenwriters don't know anything, then how do the successful ones make so much money? Answer carefully. This is a trap. © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	WOW (none / 0) (#24)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 07:44:24 PM PST

	They don't have the same commentary posted there. What incentive do you have to buy the magazine if you can read the insight of John C. Dvorak online? Strange, as I am reading every commentary word for word. I can't believe I spent $5 for the magazine when I could have read it for free without renewal cards spilling out of everywhere. Wrong. I don't have to worry about those V-chip data packet clones because I don't have a Macintosh addressable modem. port 80, v90, and v92 are NOT Macintosh specific. Give me a break. Everyone knows that Windows was under development long before Apple was even incorporated as a company. What about that whole thing where Apple was selling systems while Microsoft was still writing BASIC for the MITS Altair 8800? The Apple Lisa had a GUI and MS was still playing with DOS! Every single issue. So what was all that "I don't buy every issue blah blah blah? Again, I purchase issues from the newsstands as to not waste my money on issues which clearly would not interest me. I highly doubt that such a publication would give such devotion to an illegal OS, however." Choosing Linux, Nov 2001! Damn you sound like a raving idiot. It seems I really don't need to point out websites and such. A trip to Best Buy or any other local computer retail outlet and you'll find winmodems with the following items on the box: 56K V.90 (or V.92) NOTHING ABOUT V-CHIPS Anyone learning anything about computer and networking or an industry profesional would literally laugh at you. Maybe you should take your act on the road. Watch as those at the Consumer Electronics Show, Comdex, MacExpo, E3 laugh at you till you cry. Now I would pay to see that.

	Oh my god. (none / 0) (#26)
	by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 08:35:46 PM PST

	Strange, as I am reading every commentary word for word. I can't believe I spent $5 for the magazine when I could have read it for free without renewal cards spilling out of everywhere. Look, you terrorists will stop at nothing to help bring down the Capitalism that makes America so great, will you? You come to online BBSes and spew your nonsense about how you don't pay for music, movies, and now magazines anymore. How do you expect the authors to make money? Or is that of any concern to you, because they are not Islam? port 80, v90, and v92 are NOT Macintosh specific. No one mentioned port revision 80 or V90. You are wrong, however, in saying that the V92 component of the Macintosh address are not specific only to the Macintosh address. Please do some more research on this topic before infiltrating this topic again. The Apple Lisa had a GUI and MS was still playing with DOS! Apparently you misread my previous post. I said Windows was in development for far longer than Apple's offerings were. Apple rushed theirs to the market first, however, and its quality shows. So what was all that "I don't buy every issue blah blah blah? Every issue follows the same regimine, so I can say that with absolute certainty. Your nitpicking will only show off what a little case you have. you'll find winmodems with the following items on the box: [...] NOTHING ABOUT V-CHIPS You know damn well what they are. Hell, you probably imported a modchip with Linux to disable the V-chip on your own modem. Why would we expect any less from you terrorists? Now I would pay to see that. That'd be a first. I'm sure your money would go to the other free software crooks though, where they would also hoard it while continuing their IP thieving ways.

	pardon me.. (none / 0) (#27)
	by nathan on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 08:50:37 PM PST

	May I have a capital "G" in "God"? Thanks, Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	My apologies, Sir (none / 0) (#34)
	by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:18:12 PM PST

	It won't happen again. I take the blame and accept the fallout for that error.

	Not Islam? (none / 0) (#30)
	by Tim Mathews on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 09:27:15 PM PST

	So being Islamic is wrong? The terrorists who attacked the WTO, the embasys in Africa, etc. are not what Islam is about. Those people are the equivilent of the extremists in this country who bomb abortion clinics and claim that it's god's work. Do not attack the religion because a few people use it to further their political beliefs. The fundamentals of Islam are the same as those of Christianity and Judaism. Islam is after all merely a progression of the Judeo-Christian tradition, the Qur'an is just a progression of the Bible. But I'm sure you knew that.

	Islam (none / 0) (#33)
	by Yoshi on Wed Jan 23rd, 2002 at 10:16:32 PM PST

	So being Islamic is wrong? The terrorists who attacked the WTO, the embasys in Africa, etc. are not what Islam is about. Sometimes well-minded things suffer perversions and cause them to cease to be relevant. Remember the Swastica before the Nazis squandered it? It was originally a sign of peace and love. Obviously now, its original purpose has no role in modern society. Are you saying that after Islam was used to destroy the lives of countless families, it should still be boasted in its true intent? Why aren't you out there trying to set straight the true meaning of the Swastica? Those people are the equivilent of the extremists in this country who bomb abortion clinics and claim that it's god's work. A few renegade believers does not construe the beliefs of the entire group. However, entire nations of believers (Iran, Afghanistan, et. al) do have that power. The fundamentals of Islam are the same as those of Christianity and Judaism. "Fundimentals" won't get you anywhere. Like I mentioned earlier, the "fundimental basis" of the Swastica surrounded around peace. Sometimes you just have to drop the past and start anew.

	Yoshi, Yoshi, Yoshi... (none / 0) (#105)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 11:38:03 AM PST

	My I remind you of a time when Christians were as well terrorists? Repeatedly, they tried to crush without any real cause or reason - guess who - the Muslims. Should Christianity cease to be relevant, just as you have said Islam has? Because there was a time when the merchants and financial elite of the time thought we should fight a war and told us it was God's will to kill the Muslims. Is this sounding familiar to you? It looks as if the religion I believe in which is the same one many of your Conservative counterparts, if not yourself, believe in has suffered perversion itself. Should we then abandon it? Please, enlighten me. I wait for your golden tongue to shower knowledge upon my heathen, unknowning ears.

	Sir... (none / 0) (#106)
	by doofus on Fri Jan 25th, 2002 at 02:06:42 PM PST

	...there was a time when the merchants and financial elite of the time thought we should fight a war and told us it was God's will to kill the Muslims. I agree with your argument; the Islamic world is indeed approximately 1000 years behind the (now superior) western world.