I logged on to the Slashnet server with my mIRC application and before long, I got a "private message" from Tim Mathews, referred to from now on as timmat
. The log posted below is in its entirety, for the betterment of the community.
Session Start: Tue Jan 22 20:42:08 2002
[8:42:08 PM] Session Ident: timmat (~email@example.com)
[8:42:08 PM] <timmat> hi, are you Yoshi from adequacy?
[8:42:19 PM] <Yoshi> Indeed so
[8:42:37 PM] <timmat> ah, well I'd be Tim, the one posting against you
[8:42:49 PM] <Yoshi> ah, so you are the confused one
[8:42:57 PM] <Yoshi> howdy
[8:43:08 PM] <timmat> howdy
[8:43:18 PM] <timmat> we can start with being confused, ok.
[8:43:39 PM] <timmat> can you give me some links referring to ASP?
[8:44:09 PM] <timmat> not MS's ASP, but the assembled site pages you refer too
[8:44:18 PM] <Yoshi> do you want me to do all of your work for you so you can go back to your web development company with the newfound ASP knowledge that you didn't even work for?
[8:44:23 PM] <Yoshi> come on, you're better than that
[8:44:50 PM] <timmat> no, actually i don't work for anyone, I just read some web publishing mags and do a little work on my own site
[8:44:51 PM] <Yoshi> you ought to join us in #adequacy however..
[8:44:58 PM] <timmat> mm'k
[8:52:10 PM] <timmat> well, i seem to have been kicked by bc, so shall we continue here?
[8:52:28 PM] <Yoshi> sounds good
[8:52:41 PM] <Yoshi> memory paging isn't a secret now that AMD stole it from Intel
[8:53:01 PM] <timmat> it never was a secret, and intel didn't invent it
[8:53:38 PM] <Yoshi> a secret, perhaps not, but a revolutionary idea, indeed it was
[8:53:47 PM] <Yoshi> because only Intel forsaw the need for web pages >4kb large
[8:53:59 PM] <Yoshi> it was still the hayday of the web, only they saw the future
[8:54:03 PM] <timmat> ok, can you explain to me how as you see it, memory paging works?
[8:54:29 PM] <timmat> er, how memory paging works? my mind works faster than my hands
[8:55:29 PM] <timmat> the first intel chip with paging was the 80386, which was invented around 1987, well before the NSF was allowing just anyone on the internet
[8:55:55 PM] <Yoshi> It's quite simple, really. The chip helps calculate all of the little A HREF tags and URLs, but caps out at 4KB before the pentium, so the computer would freeze
[8:56:36 PM] <Yoshi> not just any support for pages, but pages as large as 4Mb
[8:58:25 PM] <timmat> no, what reads them is the web browser, netscape, internet explorer, opera, etc
[8:58:52 PM] <Yoshi> yeah, but the processor helps them out, much in the same way that MMX extensions help out DirectX
[8:58:53 PM] <timmat> the web browser runs on top of the OS, which in turn is run on the CPU
[8:59:45 PM] <timmat> directX takes advantage of special processor op. codes, html doesn't in anyway use any special built in functions
[9:00:50 PM] <Yoshi> it doesn't, but the processor detects it and aids its speed anyway, much like ATI aids Quake 3
[9:00:57 PM] <timmat> you really should read some books on programming theory, if you don't trust the linux people, get SAM's Teach Yourself Visual C++ in 21 days.
[9:01:44 PM] <Yoshi> I'll consult the MSDN documentation which is far more thorough
[9:02:26 PM] <timmat> most likey it is.
[9:05:47 PM] <timmat> just admit that you made a mistake about MS inventing it, and we can move on from that
[9:06:12 PM] <Yoshi> that's absurd, they like to take the credit for it, but Microsoft developed it and released it first in Internet Explorer. At that time, Netscape had a much larger market share, so its first large exposure was when Netscape licensed the APIs from Microsoft.
[9:07:53 PM] <timmat> can you show me that on microsoft's website, if netscape is indeed lying, MS would certainly be upset about it
[9:08:48 PM] <Yoshi> there are plenty of times other companies steal Microsoft's inventions and take credit for it, Microsoft has grown rather apathetic to it now since appropriate credit isn't necessary as long as they have the superior product.
[9:09:30 PM] <timmat> i keep giving you proof of my points, you haven't given any in support of your's, you skirt around the issue, saying i should do my own research, or my links will steal your credit card number
[9:09:56 PM] <timmat> if windows was as secure as you claim, you wouldn't worry about some rouge website stealling your CC info
[9:10:06 PM] <Yoshi> I have seen none too few times where other innocent Microsoft defenders were defrauded by the open source zealots
[9:10:45 PM] <timmat> give me an example, please one example of each of your points, I'll concede the argument to you and it will be done with
[9:11:21 PM] <Yoshi> I've already explained my points thoroughly and provided irrefutable knowledge to back it up
[9:13:19 PM] <timmat> What knowledge? Your own? You have given me nothing backing up your paging theory, or anything about your version of ASP, or this supposed "V-chip" in modems, or how linux violates the DMCA, or any of that
[9:14:56 PM] <Yoshi> Processor memory paging has been common knowledge since the early 90s, ASP was put into place to compensate for AMD's deficiencies, and everyone knows about v-chips and Linux's overriding of them to hide critical IP token information
[9:15:48 PM] <timmat> dammit! everyone? who? show me a website, refer me to some document, a court order, a legal ruling, something! anything?
[9:16:14 PM] <timmat> I'm on linux and I'm not hiding a damn thing, you can ping me if you want and see for yourself
[9:17:34 PM] <timmat> and what of the other free, open source OS's such as BSD, plan9, inferno, etc. mind you plan9 and inferno were both developed at lucent.
[9:17:40 PM] <Yoshi> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=comments;sid=2001/12/19/21302/725;cid=62#62
[9:17:58 PM] <Yoshi> so long as they disable the V-chip, they're illegal and should be exterminated
[9:20:31 PM] <timmat> what you've given is a post from someone who shares your views. can you show me a link on MS's website about V-chips or maybe on 3com's website?
[9:20:45 PM] <timmat> btw, where do you get all your info?
[9:21:04 PM] <Yoshi> PC magazines
[9:21:46 PM] <timmat> such as?
[9:22:03 PM] <timmat> I know damned well PC magazine wouldn't publish that.
[9:22:20 PM] <Yoshi> well I've got PC Magazine and PC World on my desk now
[9:22:23 PM] <Yoshi> ever read John C. Dvorak?
[9:22:25 PM] <timmat> http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/
[9:22:33 PM] <timmat> i think you should go there and read that
[9:23:03 PM] <timmat> the government uses linux, they have released open source code that anyone can download and read, modify, etc.
[9:23:18 PM] <timmat> does this make the NSA a subversive terrorist organization?
[9:23:19 PM] <Yoshi> thanks to Bill Clinton and all of the other Communism-embracing liberals
[9:23:52 PM] <timmat> communism is about as far from liberalism as you can get
[9:23:55 PM] <Yoshi> would any American-loving patriot allow Usama to prosper in his caves for eight years without doing anything to stop them? Of course I would
[9:23:59 PM] <Yoshi> tell that to Robert Reich
[9:26:39 PM] <timmat> you see, communism is all about acting as a group, being one and sharing, not keeping anything for yourself. Liberalism on the otherhand is oriented towards the individual, the primary tenant of liberalism is to not limit anyones rights unless they infringe on a higher right of someone else.
[9:27:37 PM] <Yoshi> hmm, both definitions fit the GNU project
[9:28:51 PM] <timmat> what exactly is wrong with the GNU project? It doesn't prevent you from selling GNU/Linux, infact there are a lot of linux distros out there that cost several thousand
[9:29:31 PM] <Yoshi> precisely its motto to bring communism into the American mainstream
[9:31:59 PM] <timmat> where are you getting this?
[9:32:26 PM] <Yoshi> straight from the goals of RMS's page
[9:33:18 PM] <Yoshi> here's another article about RMS you should read: http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/29/95736/251
[9:33:37 PM] <timmat> RMS is a member of the ACLU. Is that a communist organization?
[9:33:46 PM] <Yoshi> absolutely
[9:34:00 PM] <Yoshi> it's as communist as it gets
[9:36:01 PM] <timmat> and how is offering linux for free violating any copy protection? the point of linux was and continues to be the fact that it is a free OS
[9:36:20 PM] <timmat> It was *meant* to be copyied
[9:36:48 PM] <Yoshi> that's not the issue, the issue is Linux's ability to override a user's internal V-Chip in their modem so they can launch their DOS attacks against unsuspecting websites
[9:37:28 PM] <timmat> You do realize that you can launch a DoS attack from a windows machine just as easily?
[9:37:51 PM] <timmat> in fact probably easier since the programming has already been done for you
[9:38:06 PM] <Yoshi> that's because Windows has DOS built into it. You can still tracert where they come from with windows DOS programs, but with Linux DOS programs, you can't because the V-Chip is gone
[9:38:56 PM] <timmat> DOS is an OS, Disk Operating System. DoS is a cheap internet hack, Denial of Service, there is a huge difference.
[9:39:31 PM] <timmat> if i ping you and you're running a decent firewall you can see it, if you'd like i'll demonstrate
[9:40:00 PM] <Yoshi> that's quite okay, I am confident you already hacked your V-Chip off and would cause my computer to start dialing into Yahoo or something
[9:40:38 PM] <timmat> you can't dial into Yahoo! Dammit, you're being stubborn and you know it.
[9:41:12 PM] <timmat> There isn't a damned V-Chip in my T-1 DSU/CSU.
[9:41:42 PM] <Yoshi> much in the same way that there isn't a serial number on my pentium 3
[9:41:47 PM] <Yoshi> you illegally disabled it, though
[9:41:49 PM] <timmat> A V-Chip is a little device in TV's that allowed parents to block certain channels that they shouldn't have signed up for in the first place
[9:42:01 PM] <Yoshi> now you're just making stuff up
[9:42:11 PM] <timmat> I'm making stuff up?
[9:42:33 PM] <timmat> http://www.fcc.gov/vchip/
[9:42:45 PM] <timmat> there's the FCC's V-Chip website
[9:43:21 PM] <Yoshi> so I'll click on that website link and be redirected to the FCC website with your IP token information embedded with your 'ping'?
[9:43:29 PM] <Yoshi> thus, I am the one to get the blame for hacking my modem's vchip
[9:44:07 PM] <timmat> no, you won't. really. ping is a program used to see if a network route is up, you have it on your computer
[9:44:24 PM] <timmat> and you're not going to hack anything, because there isn't anything there to be hacked
[9:45:05 PM] <Yoshi> I wouldn't be the type to do that anyway. I'm sure your ping program left your IP token on my v-chip so it's easily detectable by the FCC when I go to their website though
[9:45:30 PM] <timmat> i never pinged you, you said not to and I didn't
[9:46:00 PM] <Yoshi> there's no way I can be confident
[9:46:44 PM] <timmat> i guess not, but then you could have a little faith in your fellow citizen, no?
[9:47:27 PM] <Yoshi> well that pretty much sums it up, I can never be sure what lengths the linix zealots go to to evade and cover their own tracks
[9:47:53 PM] <Yoshi> for all I know, you could have been using DOS programs against amazon and are planning on turning me into the FCC with your pings
[9:49:02 PM] <timmat> don't you understand how ping works?
[9:49:19 PM] <timmat> or how the amazon people would track down any attack?
[9:49:43 PM] <Yoshi> well they obviously couldn't if you disable the V-chip in your modem
[9:50:19 PM] <Yoshi> but by transferring that information to me, clearly I would be in the line of offense by the FCC and Amazon lawyers when I am nothing more than a law abiding Windows user
[9:51:26 PM] <timmat> yes they could. the closest thing i can figure to what your talking about is the MAC address of ethernet cards. That is a permenant unique number that cannot be changed or overriden. if it is, you can connet to any network because no other computer knows how to talk to you
[9:52:17 PM] <Yoshi> no, I have a PC, all of which utilize the V-chip technology
[9:52:46 PM] <timmat> and there isn't a mac address in dialup modems because they create a direct point-to-point connection with your ISP and then they assign you an IP for the duration of your being online, and the computer that you connect to at the ISP has a mac address that you likewise borrow for the interim that you are online
[9:53:19 PM] <timmat> i have a PC as well, it just happens to run linux, and its not overriding anything
[9:54:05 PM] <Yoshi> no kidding, that works all well and good for us dialup users running Windows machines without the competing Macintosh address technology, the V-chip provides crucial data to aid the FBI in locating hackers
[9:54:47 PM] <Yoshi> but Linux disables this technology and thus allows hackers to go untraced by the feds
[9:55:03 PM] <timmat> it has nothing to do with a macintosh, the MAC stands for media access control
[9:55:22 PM] <timmat> network cards had that long before the machintosh computer existed
[9:55:35 PM] <timmat> the fbi runs linux
[9:55:39 PM] <Yoshi> I don't have the time to sit here and read your lies
[9:55:45 PM] <timmat> what lies?
[9:56:09 PM] <Yoshi> all of your Macintosh address balogna
[9:56:48 PM] <timmat> ITS NOT A MACINTOSH ADDRESS
[9:57:18 PM] <timmat> http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/MAC_address.html
[9:57:21 PM] <timmat> look there
[9:57:36 PM] <timmat> oh, wait. you won't follow the links i give you
[9:57:49 PM] <Yoshi> if you're going to get hostile, I think it's time for our discussion to come to an end. I tried to tolerate and debate your lies as much as I can, but you've been making up terminology and technology the whole way through, it's getting frustrating
[9:58:05 PM] <timmat> i'm not making anything up
[9:58:23 PM] <timmat> please feel free to do a search on yahoo or google for any of the terms i have used
[9:58:54 PM] <timmat> if you don't trust my links, OK, but maybe you'll feel safe getting them from a search engine?
[9:58:56 PM] <Yoshi> you feel really confident that I'd find the results, you didn't scam one of the sites up to the top of the list, did you?
[9:59:33 PM] <timmat> i apologize for yelling, and no i didn't
[9:59:48 PM] <timmat> i honestly wouldn't know where to start to do something like that
[10:00:35 PM] <Yoshi> I understand completely
[10:02:16 PM] <Yoshi> I've got to leave now, but I enjoyed our little conversation and I hope I taught you a little bit that will come in handy for your web development business
[10:02:45 PM] <timmat> I still don't know what assembled site pages are
[10:03:31 PM] <Yoshi> would you object to posting a portion of this log for public viewing, in case you feel others may benefit from this debate between my facts and your perpetuated myths?
[10:04:08 PM] <timmat> post all you want, i hopw you will allow me to print it and show it to some of the sys admins i know?
[10:04:18 PM] <timmat> and maybe a few comp sci teachers.
[10:04:56 PM] <Yoshi> absolutely, but feel free to replace my name with yours if you don't want to be credited towards the bunk arguments that you mentioned earlier
[10:05:07 PM] <timmat> cute
[10:05:19 PM] <Yoshi> I hope to talk to you later, goodnight