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Poll
Goths should be:
Sent to Christian camps of re-education 8%
Imprisoned 1%
Deported to Siberia 20%
Made to work in the fast food industry 21%
Given prozac to cheer them up a bit 27%
Given bleach to lighten up their clothing 20%

Votes: 107

 Goths and Vampirism - A final solution?

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Jul 16, 2001
 Comments:
Goths are well known to be a troubled, sombre people. They are common in our cities, schools and even universities, dressed in black, the colour of evil, and forming strange cliques that no normal person can penetrate or even understand. As the many incidents of school violence in America today have shown, Goths can be very dangerous, because they worship a certain type of evil and have no respect for the rule of law.
justice

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The history of Goths goes back a long way, back to pre-Christian times. When they were exanding their empire to the Rhine the Romans first stumbled on their perfidious influence. The Germans, that brutal race, were forced against the border of the Roman Empire again and again by the Goths behind them pushing them on. Originally a far eastern people, the Goths came down from the steppes of Russia to mainland Europe around 200 AD, and started harassing the Romans, the font of civilisation. The Romans had a fatal lack of judgment however; instead of sallying forth to destroy the insidious Goths when they had the chance, they settled on a policy of resistance and non-expansionism.

A fatal mistake. When Rome burned under the hands of the barbarian Goths in the fifth century, the light of civilisation went out across Europe, and the Dark Ages followed.

Now, in modern America, we find that the Goths are back and their aims are even worse than before. This time the dark hordes have been brought up in civilisation, but have chosen to reject it. They use the internet, word of mouth and extreme peer pressure to spread their creed and worldview across the highschools of America and beyond. Goths hate learning and civilisation. They hate schools and decent, honest, ambitious children so much that they have started to shoot them. They turn their backs on learning and reasonable, Christian behaviour, prefering to worship barbaric practises - Goths love death, magick, mysticism and indeed anything they can use to attack normal society with.

Even more shockingly, many Goths are vampires (or as they term it, vampyres). They adore going out at night, kidnapping young virgins (virgins are much prized in Goth culture, though hard to find) and sucking their blood. Of course, this tends to get them into trouble with the law, so they have formed vampire donor groups, where they suck innocent young people into voluntarily donating blood.

Goths also deny their sex. They consider themselves androgynous. This is so perverted it is unreal - and it explains why so many of them insist on wearing concealing clothes and adopting strange, asexual names. Where good Christian women know their place and live as good homemakers in the nest, female Goths like to defy their feminine nature and behave in extremely agressive ways.

Indeed, the entire Goth scene is all about power. Nothing is more gratifying to a Goth than to gain control over someone, and their sexual games are wrapped up in power and domination/submission. Once they have honed their power wielding and intimidation abilities, older Goths use them to ruthlessly recruit new Goths into the path of darkness. Many a true-blooded Christian has been seduced by the thought of power over others, or the thought of being in the thrall of another. All Goths are either megalomaniacs or degenerate wretches. Handcuff sales in Goth-rich cities, such as Austin, are up to three times greater than in cities with no noticeable Goth scene, like Seattle.

Goths are disturbingly sex crazed. No practice is too perverted for them - they far prefer the beast of one back to the beast of two, and they have no concept or understanding of monogomy or partnership. Raw, animal sex is all they understand, with as many partners as they can get. One would almost feel sorry for them, and their lack of understanding of the power and pleasure of love, were it not for them deserving condemnation for their wicked lustfulness.

You may think that many Goths just like the scene because they get to dress up in many cool shades of black and meet people who share their interests, but in actual fact the world of the Goth is utterly subversive and incredibly dangerous. I spoke to a young man named Kevin(*), who was in the Goth scene for 15 years, from the age of 12. Here is a short transcript:

bc: What made you become a Goth?

Kevin: When I was just about a teenager, I hated school and learning, and hated going to church. One day, on a Sunday when I was supposed to be at church but was instead hiding in the graveyard outside, I fell in with a group of Goths. They seemed really rebellious to me, wearing all black and having contempt for learning but an interest in strange things, like magick and Nazi SS memorabilia.

bc: What happened to your school performance after you became a Goth?

Kevin: My school performance immediately plummeted. The Goths all insisted that school was for people who weren't 'free thinkers' and they filled me with hate towards my fellow schoolchildren. They thought they were 'apart' and better than everyone else. I never studied, and only read about magick and vampirism if I read at all. It was a terrible period in my life.

bc: What happened after you left school?

Kevin: New York called out like a siren to me - a notable city of deviants, I was drawn to it and the Goth community there. Goths are all into BDSM and the more extreme ones become Vampires. It was this I was attracted to and this I got involved in.

bc: Did you have any experiences in the Vampire community?

Kevin: Yes. I was enticed into the Vampire community, which is just the logical conclusion and destination of the Goth scene. It started innocently - I was approached in a club (the 'Torture Gardens') and asked to be a donor by a friend who I trusted at the time. Before long I was donating blood to Vampires - we would meet up, and they would cut my jugular with a razor and suck a good pint off. After a while, things got worse and I was asked to participate in 'bloodsports' - disgusting sexual games and perversions with fresh human blood as the main theme. It was after one night of this, in 1998, when, feeling weak and emaciated (having sucked on and been sucked upon) that I realised how far I had fallen.

bc: How did you get out of the Goth community?

Kevin: When I realised how low I had become, I started to investigate again the teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth our Lord and Saviour, who died for our sins. I realised that Jesus will forgive all, even those who worship Satan by proxy, such as Goths. I became a born again Christian and renounced the ways of Goths for all time. At first it was hard - Goths insist on trying to make everyone think like them, and are not above using physical violence and casting Wiccan spells to impose proper thought. I had to leave New York. Now that I have found the Lord I work as a missionary in the Goth community, encouraging Goths to renounce the ways of Satan and affirm their faith in the Lord.

So there we see that Goths are extremely subversive. Not content with Vampirism, blood sucking and worshipping Satan by proxy, they insist on proselytising and attacking all free thinkers and lovers of Jesus. The question is, what can be done to stop them? Simple:

  • Wearing of black banned in all schools. Goths prey upon the young and weak - no right thinking adult would become a Goth, so they depend on hoodwinking immature minds to spread their deviant, dangerous creed. Like Scots with Tartan, or Jews with skullcaps, it is well known that stomping out the clothing of the creed harms the creed itself. We must fight fire with fire - we must not lose the raging battle for the minds of our children.
  • More Christian education in schools. The fact that these demonic ways of thinking are spreading among adolescents is entirely due to the lack of proper religious education in schools. Beelzebub, through his high school intermediaries, is filling the gap and turning the minds of our children to poison.
  • All people suspected of being goths should have their bloodcounts regularly measured. If there is a shortfall, clearly they must be participating in Vampiric and Goth-like behaviour, in which case they can be sent to a place of Christian re-education.
  • No cliques allowed in schools. If we look at high school 'jocks' we can see that they provide a wonderful role model for our children. We should elevate them to a position above other children and encourage all children to be like them.
  • Ban long hair. It is well known that long hair is not Christian. No followers of Jesus ever had long hair, so all those with collar length or longer hair are under suspicion. All schools should insist in properly cropped hair, except for girls, for whom the converse applies.
  • Goth music, like the Sisters of Mercy, the Cure, and so on must be completely stamped out. We should encourage decent Godly music, like 'Yesterday' by Paul McCartney or Handel's Messiah. It has been shown that the music Goths listen to promotes depression and antisocial behaviour.
  • Earpiercings, tatoos etc banned. Another hallmark of the Goth is bodily modification. This is because they don't respect the body God gave them, and eventually they hate it. So they seek to 'improve' it with beastly decorations and implants. This must be stopped so we can have a reasonable, whole society again.
It is only by righteous and tough love that we will exterminate this warped creed from the minds of the young. Let there be a mighty awakening across America, and a damnation of all heathens and unbelievers, such as Goths.

(*)-Name concealed to protect 'Kevin' against retribution.


Well (2.50 / 4) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 03:58:57 PM PST
Speaking as a Christian I can't promote vengeance, Christ taught us that is wrong.

However these Goths are very dangerous, you see them congregating by a bus shelter near where I live, and crime is high there.

Education is what I recommend. Maybe when people are educated better they will not become Goths.

Goths and the like are just the victim and result of ignorance in our society, IMHO. Educate them and they will cease to be Goths.


Education (3.66 / 3) (#22)
by SpaceGhoti on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 04:55:25 PM PST
Most of the Goths I know are better educated than you, and could intelligently discuss the strengths and flaws of Shakespearean sonnets.

Most of them also wouldn't lift a finger to harm you unless you decided to try to preach at them or try to ruin their mascara. In which case, the stomping of boots would be swift and brutal. They're far more amused by your reaction to their appearance than any juvenile need to compare genital sizes.

The more you disapprove, the more fun it is for me. You think that's ignorant? They know you better than you know yourself.


A troll's true colors.

 
Humanity...what is it? (5.00 / 2) (#25)
by Carrie on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 07:29:19 PM PST
As a human being...I think it is wrong to point a finger at a certain group of people for any type of violence. If your not goth or ever been goth you wouldn't understand the lifestyle. Just like me not being a christian..doesn't mean I go around saying christians are bad, or that they are brainwashed. I do not point my finger. It is disgusitng that people bring up Columbine and Goths in one sentence.

I could go on and on. But I just wanted to say a little something....just a thought. And another thing...it is no wonder a lot of people have lost faith in humanity. Bad seeds should be thrown out...not cultivated!

~*~ Carrie ~*~
~*~ Carrie ~*~ ---- "Who will save the sane..." - T.O.N.

Thank you (4.50 / 2) (#26)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 07:40:49 PM PST
I agree that we shouldn't point the finger at any group.

As a christian, I believe that it is extremely important to live and let live, but I also believe that our children should have strong moral educations (not necesarily Christian ones, I am open about that).

Most Goths seem ok to me, but what about the more extreme ones? Like the Vampire types. Duch people do exist - people who will drink human blood and so on. Wouldn't it be fair to say that such people are a tad mentally ill or something?

Perhaps as long as they don't harm anyone they should be left alone, but I think that such things should be looked into definately (vampire donor groups and such, that is).

I'm sorry I am not arguing very well and it is late where I am.

Peace, Dave.


If I may make a suggestion... (none / 0) (#146)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 10:58:02 PM PST
I agree that we shouldn't point the finger at any group.

As a christian, I believe that it is extremely important to live and let live, but I also believe that our children should have strong moral educations (not necesarily Christian ones, I am open about that).

Most Goths seem ok to me, but what about the more extreme ones? Like the Vampire types. Duch people do exist - people who will drink human blood and so on. Wouldn't it be fair to say that such people are a tad mentally ill or something?


I would agree - but I would also hasten to add that on the flip side, wouldn't you also say the same for people that kill in God's name? It is funny, when violence is initiated by other cultures, Christians will point the fingers very quickly in this case - when they perform the violence though, other Christians will be VERY quick to state "well, they weren't REAL Christians then!" That's foolish; even the followers of God would commit very bloody atrocities in his name (check out your Old Testament for that), with God's blessing!
The point is that anyone can harm others. ANYONE. Anyone can be considered a loon, or unstable; whether it be a Christian, Atheist, Wiccan, or Goth...Hiding behind a moral curtain will do nothing but salve your conscience - it won't do anything to address the problem (that these people were screwed up to begin with).

Priest Apostate

wanna chat?
revenant@hotmail.com

*inhales*
Black-Goth-ex-Christian-now-Pagan-techie-guy
*exhales*



 
re: well (none / 0) (#55)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 02:52:32 PM PST
Speaking as a Buddhist I can't promote vengeance either, or intolerance or bigotry. It's bad for your soul.

However, I don't see how using public transportation makes one dangerous. Some people just don't own cars and like to go out dancing with a group of their friends. Yes, crime rates are high in low income areas. Are you saying the poor are dangerous?

Most of the goths I've met are educated, or at least well read, and tend to be a literate group. Not unlike another black wearing subculture: the beatniks. Of course, I'm sure beatniks and Jazz would not be considered a positive influence to the author of this page.

Yes, goths are the victum and result of ignorance in our society. When they see how well ignorance is rewarded in the form of conformity, they turn away from it. When the majority is looking for someone to blame, in their ignorance they point their finger at anyone who doesn't fit in.

- Anju


 
*Looks shocked* (none / 0) (#82)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 02:06:04 PM PST
Congregating in bus shelters?? OOh how sinful! I will never go near another bus shelter again!! LMAO What's next? Loitering with intent in MacDonalds?? How sick and sad are these paranoid maniacs?


 
hhhhhmmmm Bus Shelters a new place of evil ? (none / 0) (#87)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 04:27:18 PM PST
Goths congregating at Bus shelters, could it be too much to imagin that they're taking part in the ultimate evil.... waiting for a Bus.

Oh The Horror

Personally the thought that goths are dangerous is the same as saying that Adolf Hitler was a well balanced individual with a great respect for Jewish traditions.

Goths seem to have the most telerant view of society and don't pick judgement on others, because we have judgement and scorn poured on from nearly every other corner, aparantly having the ability to express yourself in a different way is a sin but to follow the crowd isn't it a sin to waste the gift of free will that was given to you. True there are limits but the clothes that people wear can hurt no one. If black is the colour of evil wouldn't that make Priests and Nuns evil due to their black garb?

A closed mind must be one of the most sad things to have control of.


 
RE: Well (none / 0) (#119)
by gotblack on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 08:25:43 AM PST
Perhaps it is YOU who needs education.

Lesson one:
Don't speak as a Christian. You'll embarrass the whole religion.

Lesson two:
A high crime rate in an area where you've seen goths congregate does not mean those goths are criminals and does not mean that they are dangerous. I would venture to guess that the high crime in your poor little neighborhood stems from criminals you don't see. Further, were you to set up a Block Watch (or similar, proactive community program) instead of posting uneducated comments to this forum, perhaps you might be able to clean the neighborhood up a bit.

Lesson three:
Being a goth is a matter of personal style, interest in music, etc. This is much like being Country. If you enjoy wearing the cowboy hat listening to songs about misfortune and speaking with a twang, go right ahead. Or, according to your theory, education might rid one of such evil desires. After all, they must all be six-shootin', rabble rousin', beer 'n' whiskey swillin' hicks. Go git 'em!

Lesson four:
Isn't it obvious who here is a victim of ignorance in our society?




 
Speaking as an educated Goth ... (none / 0) (#141)
by JosieNutter on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 04:55:38 PM PST
Any time you classify a stereotype, you make a fool of yourself.

Hi, my name is Josie. I'm a Goth.

I'm twenty-three years old and happily, monogamously married. I have been a part of the Goth subculture since high school.

During school, I was a cheerleader, played Varsity soccer, in the Jazz band, marching band and State-competitive Wind Ensemble; on the math meet team, in Advanced Placement English, Science, Math and Spanish; volunteered for several leadership projects and was my school's chosen representative for the Madison 2000 program. My ACT assessment results ranked in the top 1% of my graduating high school class.

I speak English, Spanish and Japanese.

Instead of going to college, I started working for Microsoft directly after graduation. I am now a web developer for a prominent Internet infrastructure provider and make more money per year than both my parents combined.

I do not smoke. I do not do drugs. At the moment, my wardrobe is primarily composed of pink and purple garments. I revel in my femininity.

I am not agressive. Actually, I consider myself to be extremely non-confrontational, almost to a fault.

I do not worship Satan. I do not think I am a vampire. I do donate blood to the Red Cross -- I'm a Universal Donor (O+) and they are very grateful to see me every 52 days.

In my life, I have had fewer sexual partners than I can count on one hand.

I also consider myself to be fairly representative of the small social circle I belong to; don't think that I am an 'exception to the rule'.

Don't assume. You know how the saying goes.


-- Josie
http://www.josienutter.com


 
more educated goth-ness (none / 0) (#165)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jul 20th, 2001 at 08:56:48 PM PST
I haven't explored this site enough to determine whether it's similar to the Overland Baptist pages.. or if they're for real (slow ISP at home.. will explore more from work) but I did want to say a few things.

"Educate them and they will cease to be Goths."

I must assume you mean educate them in "christian ways" because as a few other people pointed out, a large percentage of goths are quite well-educated. Mostly on our own, actually. We seek out English literature from the "gothic" period and educated ourselves. I've read Oscar Wilde, and Baudelaire, John Donne and Ben Jonson. I started reading Shakespeare in grade school. My current favorites are Alexandre Dumas and Victor Hugo. How many fundamental Christian friends of yours have read Les Miserables (before it was made into a Broadway musical), The Hunchback of Notre Dame, or the Count of Monte Cristo? of course... after this site, I'm tempted to go buy a copy of Faust!

While I listen to quite a bit of "goth" music and have been in the scene for 14 years, one of my favorite pieces of music is Beethoven's "Ode To Joy", I don't do any drugs more potent than an Advil for headaches, I barely drink (1 hard cider every few weeks, maybe), and the only blood I've ever tasted in my life is from cutting my finger while cooking, or a papercut, and the first thing you do is stick it in your mouth to try and stop the bleeding!

I'm a 29 yr old web developer for a Fortune 500 company, I sometimes dye my hair bright reds or purples, I have a tattoo of spiritual significance (native american, long story), and my mother is proud of me. She's a blue-eyed blonde, lexus-driving yuppie in Colorado and we talk over IMs just about every day. I run a fairly popular gothic website, have a fake spider the size of a dinner plate hanging over my desk, and wear lots of black to work, and yet my boss thinks highly of me and gave me a fantastic review, as well as making me cry when I won the "quarterly workhorse award" at my company earlier this year.

Do I sound like a sex-crazed, drug-frenzied, society-hating freak?

The only complaint my mother has about me is that I could not get my hair back to a completely normal color before my grandmother's funeral, and that I haven't made my mother a grandmother yet. I told her that has to wait till I fall in love and get married first. Oh wait.. goths aren't supposed to care about love, isn't that right?

Hate to tell you this, but a large part of being goth is thinking about love... the lack of it, the desire for it, etc. Goth is embracing your depression and working through it in types of art, such as writings or music, rather than running to the dr. and getting a prescription for prozac. we see the value in experiencing our emotions and learning from them, rather than denying them. That's one of the reasons goth music is so depressing ;p

Have to go now, I'm late to the San Diego Comic Convention! are comics evil? ;p

Gloomcookie


 
Re: Well (none / 0) (#184)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 23rd, 2001 at 06:27:02 AM PST
I have a MA in Psychology. A honours degree in Religious Studies. I'm a certified Microsoft Developer, a Certified Oracle Developer. I speak 3 languages, and am currently doing my PhD. I'm a Christian, a Goth, 35 years old and never depressed.
Just how much more education do I need.
I do however fully agree with you that people should be educated, especially narrow minded Christian who don't practice what they preach. Read your bible and stop being judgmental



 
The Goth Lifestyle Is Quite Understandable (3.66 / 3) (#21)
by Peter Johnson on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 04:44:56 PM PST
It's all about stress reduction:
  • What do I wear today, the black outfit or the black outfit?
  • Hrm... Do I want to read about vampires or werewolves?
  • Should I put on the whiny, depressed angst filled British album or the the whiny, depressed angst filled USian album?


As you can see, being a goth means never having to make a tough decision. Think about it, when was the last time you heard a goth complaining about their ulcers?

--Peter
Are you adequate?
--Peter
Are you adequate?

I am the king of google searches (5.00 / 2) (#35)
by jsm on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 04:12:04 AM PST
Think about it, when was the last time you heard a goth complaining about their ulcers?

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Still no luck with chimpanzees' arses, however.

... the worst tempered and least consistent of the adequacy.org editors
... now also Legal department and general counsel, adequacy.org

I am also apparently unaware that diaries update (5.00 / 2) (#36)
by jsm on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 04:13:46 AM PST
correct link, from the cache

Sorry about that.

... the worst tempered and least consistent of the adequacy.org editors
... now also Legal department and general counsel, adequacy.org

 
Chimpanzees' arses (none / 0) (#123)
by gotblack on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 09:01:17 AM PST
Allow me:
Chimpanzee Arses



thanks, but we were looking for a picture (5.00 / 1) (#159)
by jsm on Fri Jul 20th, 2001 at 09:09:55 AM PST
It was for an article on sexual harrassment we published a week ago -- the author (dmg) wanted to illustrate a point about evolutionary theory or what have you by linking to a picture of a chimpanzee's swollen arse. We couldn't find one, despite an inordinate amount of trouble, and had to make do with a mandrill's. Since then, it's become a sort of obsession; pictures of chimpanzees' swollen arses are exactly the sort of thing you would expect there were millions of on the Internet, and I still thinking we're just not looking hard enough.

I may write a story about this quest.

... the worst tempered and least consistent of the adequacy.org editors
... now also Legal department and general counsel, adequacy.org

 
While I think of it (3.80 / 5) (#23)
by SpaceGhoti on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 05:02:57 PM PST
Please leave Columbine out of it. The school and parents still haven't figured out why it happened, and they never will. Those kids weren't Goths, they were bullied and deranged. Even the Goth community shunned them. Eventually they decided to return every insult, real or imagined, back on the world that ignored them.

Not to mention, the people who knew them personally still grieve for them. Not for what they did, but for the boys themselves.


A troll's true colors.

 
yeah... goth is evil... RIGHT.......... (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 05:17:31 PM PST
I laugh at these attempts by religious groups attempting to blame the sins of the world on others, instead of admitting to their own faults. You amuse me and continue to do so, probably for the rest of my life. QUIT being so friggin' ignorant!


 
goth (3.00 / 2) (#28)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 16th, 2001 at 10:07:25 PM PST
~LOL~ damn man you on crack?? i cant stop laughing after i read this you MUST be high


 
hmm. (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 02:02:49 AM PST
*looks at herself* well ill be damned. apparently im an evil spawn of satan and im going to burn in hell because i have piercings, and wear lots of black. hmm.
someone should really prevent massive christian inbreeding. i think its really gone and mutated their brain cells.
but, back to my point. if you look at school shootings, not a friggin' ONE of those people were goth. and just because SOME goth people believe in vampirism, does not mean everyone does. everyone is an individual (except you brain washed christian inbreeders, apparently you all must be the same) and everyone has their own talent and their own way of doing things. please stop mating with your cousins. it stops being okay after awhile. PLEASE, for the sake of originality in humans!


*Jumps In with Both Feet Flaming* (none / 0) (#152)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jul 20th, 2001 at 02:00:33 AM PST
Ok, first of all, I am a 26 year old mother of two. I have an 8 year old son and a year and half old daughter. I am the office manager for a state university. I have a garden I love puttering around in. I have two dogs, a cat, and a wonderful husband. I am a member of MENSA in good standing. I am working on my Masters in Education. I want to be a high school teacher. I have 8 tattoos and 5 piercings. I cradle my daughter every night, and hug my son when he goes to bed. I worry about my neighborhood, and I enjoy the sound of the bells from the German Catholic Church at the end of the street. By birth I am a Jew, and by choice I am a pagan.

I am also a goth.

I work with kids. I may work with *your* kids. Right now I work with college age kids, but I also deal with programs that work with elementary school kids. Next year I will be dealing with high school kids. Your high school kids. You will meet me during teacher parent conferences, and you will have no idea that on the way home I listen to the Cure and that on weekends I go out to the club and dance to Sisters of Mercy. You will not be able to pick me out of a line up as being a goth. You will never know unless I choose to let you know. And I will be teahing your children not to be hate-filled bigots like you. Hopefully it will stick. It is obviously too late to teach you any sense.

As a last note, those kids at Columbine planned it all as a tribute to Hitler. They did it on his birthday. They were not goths. They were not SHARPS. They were neo nazi punks that went crazy and hurt a lot of people. They even said themselves they weren't goths. So there!


CORPORATE GOTHS (none / 0) (#182)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 23rd, 2001 at 03:35:56 AM PST
woohoo for corp goths...its true, you can't always read a book by its cover (as they say) and corp goths are proof of that. *smirk*


 
Goths and misunderstanding (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by Graham on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 02:10:17 AM PST
First off, I would like to point out that Im 30 and have a child of my own. Second, I myself have been a Goth and would still consider myself an active participant. With that out of the way I will begin. Where do some people get off with blaming anything that goes wrong on fringe groups, who usually dont have the voice, or the age, to be able to defend themselves, without somebody saying its only a young one, their voices mean nothing to us. The message that gets put across by the do gooders seems to be "That which we do not understand, must be destroyed". If I remember right, isnt that what the romans did to Jesus. Thats made the Christian faith the most powerful organisation in the world. So if you want Goths to become that powerful, then keep going the way your going. Otherwise lay off with the baseless accusations. Goths dont hurt people, people hurt people. It doesnt matter what walk of life you come from, how you dress, what you do for a living, everybody is capable of hurting everybody. Look within each and every one of you and you will see this is true. If you still think that Goths are to blame, youve probably got some guilty secret that you want blamed on somebody else. Graham


 
Dont be so quick to point (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 03:16:33 AM PST
Okay this is beyond ridiculous. This is not just blatant ignorance, this is even worse. I suppose, because black is evil, you must believe that black cats are evil. Black cars, then, must be evil. Rocks, minerals, things created by God(!), are evil. The last time a group of people were judged for their beliefs, they were massacred by Hitler. How about slavery- blacks were used as such and were treated less than equal because of their skin color, their appearance. While Im at it, lets go ahead and consider those that are disabled or have a disease like cancer, lets call them evil, for they cant walk upright like us 'angelic' creatures. What is written in this article is distasteful and I am ashamed that this person considers themselves Christain. I strongly advise that they do some research before talking about that which they know nothing of. This article is filled with racism, the writer, prejudiced. Many people fail to realise that the war against Satan and his demons is a spiritual one, not a physical one. Of course, one might suggest to the writer of this article, that it is a sin to condemn others. Think hard on what you perceive as evil- for your actions will decide where you will end when the time comes. Only God passes judgement, why do you take it amongst yourself to act on his behalf? Think you God smiles down upon those who would stand and point fingers and cast stones? Jesus himself stepped in front of a woman who was being stoned to death, and he sheltered her from imminent death. Are you, sir(or madame), going to be the first to cast the stone?


don't be ridiculous (3.66 / 3) (#34)
by jsm on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 04:01:50 AM PST
The last time a group of people were judged for their beliefs, they were massacred by Hitler

That's simply not true; we ourselves judged a group of people for their beliefs last week, in dmg's article "Wicca: A Scientific Solution", where we advocated separating genuine WIccans from mere Goths by the use of a ducking stool. Since then, there have been no massacres whatever. I think we have proved that we can be trusted in this matter.

... the worst tempered and least consistent of the adequacy.org editors
... now also Legal department and general counsel, adequacy.org

Godwin's law invoked - YOU LOSE. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by dmg on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 04:30:04 PM PST
Although this site normally does not support the use of Godwin's law, since we believe that some acts are inherantly similar to those of the Nazis, in this case, Godwin's law can be safely invoked. You lose. End of discussion.

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

 
a slight retraction :) (4.00 / 1) (#32)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 03:39:47 AM PST
okay, okay, i have a slight retraction to my comment about christian inbreeding. i was half asleep and slightly annoyed by people pinning horrid stuff on goth people. (and im still half asleep...)
not ALL christians are bad, as proved by a couple who did posts against this article. its just these close minded buttmonkeys who wont open their eyes and see the world for what it is. i mean...that comment about how everyone should be a jock REALLY got to me. thats stereotyping and stuffing people into groups, yet again. like stuffing all the school shooters into the goth group, its the same thing! youre retracting your own statements using your stupidity.
but...somehow i always lose my point
i have nothing against the christian religion, hell i dont have anything against any religion. but with the way some people act...it makes me want to cry sometimes because people can be so close minded and prejudiced.
and blah blah blah, its human nature, i know, but this is against people you dont even know! i think its okay to hate someone as long as you have a good reason to hate them.
why do you people who made this article thing, hate goths? because you think we brainwash people into drinking blood? because you think we're out to get followers for satan? no, because then, our group would be called 'vampires' or 'satanists'

people..im sorry for my half crazy rantings, but i believe i made slight sense. lost my point again though.


 
hah (1.00 / 1) (#33)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 03:54:19 AM PST
i just realized something...
it would be absolutely hilarious if a goth wrote this...as a joke or something. abso-friggin'-lutely hilarious
but
thats just my thoughts on the matter :)


IT IS A DAMN JOKE! (1.00 / 1) (#65)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 08:05:39 PM PST
The whole site is full of such whacked out ideas that this HAS to be a joke. Noone can be this fucked in the head!

Me


LOL (1.00 / 1) (#85)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 02:26:21 PM PST
You haven't met my sister then.


 
joke (1.00 / 1) (#95)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 09:22:44 PM PST
yeah, am i the only person who took that post as tounge in cheek, i think its pretty obvious the guy who wrote it wasnt being serious


 
Humor (1.00 / 1) (#137)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 02:40:00 PM PST
if the point of hte post is humor, then the subsequent posts are also made in the point of humor. This board is interesting to read, quite funny, but how much hilairty would be lost if no one replied?


 
a joke (none / 0) (#126)
by gotblack on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 09:31:11 AM PST
Seems to be a joke. The whole site seems to be founded on the idea that when you rile people up, emotions fly and URLs are passed to mailing lists. The result is a hell of a lot of traffic. It was pretty dry humour, but the part that bugged me is the people defending it as if they believed it or learned something from it. A dangerous line is walked when you present a joke in this manner. The world contains a LOT of really stupid people who will believe anything they read and will then empower themselves to treat innocent people differently because of it.

Try to be more thoughtful of the broad results of your articles, author. Maybe a bit less dry next time.


 
Are you blind? (3.00 / 2) (#37)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 05:19:34 AM PST
I can't believe what I'm reading! You completely stereotyped a large number of people! For one thing, I am goth and guess what? I'm in girl scouts! I'm president of my troop because of my amazing leadership capabilites. Guess what else? I have a 4.0 average in school. I'm in French Club and I volunteer my time to aiding most of the time. You haven't the clue what you are talking about by saying "All goths wear black!" I like colors! Gothism is a philosophy, not a dress code. Open up your minoptic little brains and take a long hard look around!


easy for you to say (4.33 / 3) (#38)
by jsm on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 06:18:20 AM PST
after all, on the Internet, nobody knows you're a Goth. I'm afraid I flat out don't believe you.

... the worst tempered and least consistent of the adequacy.org editors
... now also Legal department and general counsel, adequacy.org

why not? (1.00 / 1) (#169)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jul 21st, 2001 at 07:37:25 AM PST
is it too hard for you to actually hear some form of truth? other than the brain rot that you have been digesting for all these years?


 
Question (none / 0) (#39)
by spam o tron mk1 on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 08:02:16 AM PST
Gothism is a philosophy, not a dress code.

Shouldn't a philosophy have just a little more meat to it than liking vampires and wearing black?


You're right, it should! (none / 0) (#42)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 09:31:56 AM PST
It's a shame you can't see past it.


 
Gothism is a philosophy, not a dress code (none / 0) (#67)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 09:25:26 PM PST
Shouldn't a philosophy have just a little more meat to it than liking vampires and wearing black?

you are of course assuming that all goths like vampires. personally i dont. i find that the people that do honestly belive that they must drink blood to survive and sleep in coffins is to me a bit strange. now am i going to start a revolution to expel all those people into a single place and drive a very large silver stake though them. NO!!!!! if you judge other people by their dress or even by what you have heard, for one that is called Gossip and is a sin in the bible, and second you will be given a day of judgement and on that day you will stand before whatever greater power you believe in and explain to that being why you are better than them because you past judgement on your fellow man. when i have my day of judgement i can say that i lived my life and stayed true to myself, and yes i did sin but i have repented that sin and ask for forgivness from that being. all in all, you are not God and have no right to pass judgement. By the way Stereotypes=Gossip=sin



 
...right. (none / 0) (#207)
by Mercy on Thu Dec 13th, 2001 at 08:56:22 AM PST
While I don't know that I'd classify "goth" as a philosophy, there *is* more to the gothic subculture than liking vampires and wearing black.




 
philosophy? (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 12:06:34 PM PST
No it's not - it's a subculture, composed of a general worldview expressed in such art-forms as fashion, music, and writing. To be a philosophy as such it would need to be formalised, and as anyone who has read a "What is Goth?" thread on alt.gothic will know, no-one has ever succeeded in satisfactorily doing so. Even as a subculture, since its roots in the late '70's it has been changing almost constantly. The "Vampyre" thing is a tiny minority thing practised by less than 1% of goths, and generally laughed at and ridiculed by the other 99%. There are Christian Goths, Buddhist Goths, Jewish Goths, Atheist Goths - the list goes on. Since it's not a religion or a philosophy it doesn't conflict with any belief system. If anything what does characterise goth, IMHO, is a consciousness of the ephemeral nature of life, that change, including death and decay are inevitable parts of life. Handled correctly, this expresses itself as a more focussed way of appreciating one's life, somewhat akin to Zen, or the way of the early Christian Desert monks. Again, though, that's just my take on it, and doesn't stand up as any kind of formalised philosophy, more just a feeling or a way of looking at things.


 
Goth Article (4.00 / 1) (#40)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 08:07:09 AM PST
:-)

Hilarious article. Liked it! A lot!
Off to sack Rome, drink virgins blood and deny Christ (busy types us Goths dontchakno?). :-)


 
This HAS to be a joke! LOL (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by Lyllia on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 09:20:46 AM PST
At least I HOPE it is. If it is not, consider yourself eBuked, my friend! Your message birthed from fear and hatred is a blazing example of a false Gospel. God is a God of Love, Chief. I suggest you lose interest in the things of the flesh and start judging folks by the content of their character rather than outward appearances. God hates the hypocrite, you know. Be mindful or yourself.


Yes, God is Love (3.00 / 2) (#43)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 10:13:34 AM PST
but He does hate the sin. This Goth stuff is a trend that has apparently bypassed my little city (or perhaps they're around late at night when I'm inside sleeping, comforting our newborn, or studying the Scriptures), but from the unbiased reporting I've read, it does seem dangerous and even heretical (it's Sacrament when you eat Jesus' body and blood, blasphemy when you drink someone elses).

In any case, it sounds dangerous, and it makes me long for the good old days when the only people wearing black were the priests and nuns.


A. Rightmann

Gah! (4.00 / 2) (#44)
by SpaceGhoti on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 10:28:19 AM PST
(it's Sacrament when you eat Jesus' body and blood, blasphemy when you drink someone elses)

When you stop to think about this for a second, does this strike anyone as being even slightly absurd? Aside from the fact that Transubstantiation is a ritual almost directly stolen from sun worship, the logic of the above statement completely falls apart when considered in context.

Not that religion ever needs (or encourages) logic to support itself, but some consistency is in order.

...unbiased reporting...

Reporting of what? Vampirism? If you think being Goth and worshiping vampires (or thinking you are one) are invariably linked, you need to find new sources. Most Goths I know find the notion of vampirism to be romantic and morbid, therefore cool to ponder. None of them actually think they're vampires. If you've been listening to reports of role-players pretending to be vampires for their games, that's something else entirely.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The world is not black and white, even for Goths.


A troll's true colors.

vampires roleplayers..... (none / 0) (#173)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Jul 21st, 2001 at 03:10:02 PM PST
And what of those that actually do drink the blood of humans and have the gift to utilize the energy......?

Anyone who freely admits it, is told to be a liar or a nut. Can they not have similar interests (RPing,etc.) and if they are known to RP then someone finds out they do actually feed....they are told to be a liar. *shakes head*

Alot of things in this world sicken me.....and people (in general) are one of them. Most everyone (some goths included) are so wrapped up in their look that they forget TO look. There is so much goin on around us, and there is so much that is awesomely deep but people are to caught up to care. And then there are others that take advantage of an idea ("trendies")and those to closeminded to see.

Then of course you have the trendy goths and the lifestylers. .... What is more disgusting and embarrassing <spelling?>and degrading than knowing what something is....and what it is about by living the life. Then seeing someone degrading and cheapening it's name and meaning by thinking it is something else and portraying that to the world for all to see and believe that is what we are all about.

I posted before that I wish this whole article to be a sarcastic joke.... because there simply is to much hate, misunderstanding and misinformation about/for Goths and Real "Vampires" (for lack of a better word) and SOO many other subcultured groups.

now onto the subject of Christian Goths..... There are alot better oxymorons than that. One of which best describes me.... ChristianPagan... That is my religion because I believe in God and I believe that Jesus died for our sins and stuff in the bible. But I also believe (and noone can convince me otherwise, though opinions and views are always welcomed to help further open my eyes/mind) that the Pagan Gods and Goddesses are quite possibly Guardians of ____(place element, object, etc. here). So....why now is it impossible for one who is mostly passive and feels that intelligent conversation and trying to work things out is better than fighting, one who is blessed enough to have their eyes opened to everything around them and to be able to write/create art/music about it and both the wonderful and sensual and terrible things in life,one who tries not to judge and prefers to stick mostly to themselves (most of the time for lack of better company),one that has an overall respect for all things in life AND death,one blessed(though I know sometimes it feels as a curse)with EMPATHY, COMPASSION, UNCONDITIONAL LOVE (something, if I remember correctly,the bible says we should ALL have for each other),...to be a Christian. Is it really so hard to believe they could be Christian? Are those not some of the standards we are asked to embrace???? I'll tell you, personally, since I have started letting go of ALL my closeminded ideas,showing a general respect for my fellow person (as much as I dislike them at times), my spiritual life is alot cleaner and my relationship with God and my Guardians are alot better.... and yes.... I bloodlet...but I see that not as a sin because I don't do it from anger, I'm NEVER careless, and I ALWAYS have permission. Most of all....my conscience is clear about it.

So...now...the last of my post... If one decides to post an "Informative" message (such as the original) Research.... and you know, nothing helps writing an article better than Personal Experience.

~*~Forgive me for the novel, but I had alot to get off my chest. I hope in some way this helps to open someone's eyes or heart.~*~
In love and light and blood ;)

Damiana
P.S. Do you realize how hard it is for one to find a trusted donor??? One that will go and get tested with you and keep getting tested???? One that you know will always be truthful... It's alot harder than alot of people realize. Think About It.


 
The Cult of Gothicus (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by Andrij on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 11:46:04 AM PST
We are indeed very dangerous.

We are not unlike the Masons.

We control your pitiful country. And have for centuries.

I will use my power on you this instant.

I am controlling you.

You will buy a Thesaurus.



Thank you (none / 0) (#89)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 04:39:36 PM PST
I thank you so much for compelling me to buy a thesaurus. It inspired many more words in which to describe this absurd article.


 
i love you (none / 0) (#162)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jul 20th, 2001 at 01:33:28 PM PST
marry me!



 
Re: Sin (none / 0) (#53)
by Lyllia on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 01:58:45 PM PST
Where does it say in scripture that God disaproves of people in black clothing? As you sit peacfully in your home cradling your infant in your arms, if you were to look out the window to see someone aproach your doorstep would you assume they were there to: A. steal your child and drink your blood? B. steal your VCR? C. find directions because they were lost? D. peddle Jehovah's Witness material? E. present you with a check from Publishers Clearinghouse? What if they were all dressed in black? A black man? A guy in a clown suit? Someone in old clothes? Someone in a cowboy hat? A military uniform? Any person can be dangerous - or maybe not. To reject someone because of the way they are dressed clearly crosses the line and IS sinful. (James 2:1) The entire notion of Goth = blood drinking devil worship is untrue. True some blood drinkers choose this form of dress, but most don't. They work in your office building, look just like you and cradle their children same as you do. Don't assume that because someone is dressed in black that they are a bad person. That is a mistake.


 
Oh please (none / 0) (#132)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 12:36:12 PM PST
Speaking from ignorance always makes one look the fool.

He who does not question his beliefs and see the world around him for what it truly is, is but a sheep in the unknowing flock.



 
Your Article (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 11:18:45 AM PST
What can I say. You are sick & sad. Who gave you the right to judge anyone? Your article was so full of holes that I could drive a MACK truck through it. Your links seemed to point to random.goth sites without having any relationship to the highlighted text. Except for the one about Goths shooting people. That pointed to a link that disproved your own theroy or the ones on Vampirism....I'll give you that. That is scary....but saying that not all Goths are Vampires...in fact I would say that outside the US there are little or none. I am an ex-Goth, my SO is a week-end Goth and a lot of my freinds are Goths. Man, did you ever get it wrong. Try hanging with Goths for a while before you write an article like this. It is people like you that drove me AWAY from the Christian Church......Patrick.


 
If this isn't a joke (none / 0) (#48)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jul 17th, 2001 at 12:28:35 PM PST
If this isn't a joke, the author is pathetically ignorent. I was a "goth" through most of high school (and I still love the music and some aspects of the subculture) and I didn't know a single goth who drank blood, lured virgins, or were violent. None of the people that I considered genuenly goth (because there are a lot of silly kids who CALL themselves goth) worshiped satan. In fact, I knew a few Christian goths. And I can't beleive the junk written about stamping out goths in schools. No black clothing? You think goths only wear black? It's the most common color, but you're wrong to think it's so essential to our subculture that the lack of it would stamp it out. Take a blood count for kids suspected to be goth? That would have done no good for me or any of my goth friends considering we never donated (or drank) blood to these people you call "vampires." And I can't believe that you would suggest encouraging all kids to be like the "jocks." In my high school, the jokes were REALLY VIOLENT and often did more drugs than the kids you consider to be the bad one. The more I think about this, the more I think it MUST be a joke. If it isn't, the author lives an oppressive and hate-filled life.


 
Poor BC! (4.00 / 4) (#49)