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One gets
half. 12%
all. 56%
none. 31%

Votes: 16

 You're all whores.

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Dec 28, 2001
How much should you get?

More diaries by luisa
Is fiction permitted in the Diaries?
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Who stole my thunder?


If you have to ask... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by chloedancer on Fri Dec 28th, 2001 at 11:21:45 PM PST
...then it's quite likely that I'm far more than you could afford ;) C'est la vie.

However, if I were to attempt to answer your question in the manner you most likely intended, I'd have to think long and hard about the difference between "priceless" and "free"; suffice it to say that such enigmas are not on my agenda for the next five days. Mercy!

There are no half measures in war or whore (none / 0) (#3)
by Inden on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 08:15:14 AM PST
Either it is all or it is nothing. Power is the game. Sex is the name. Money is irrelevant. We all know that down where it counts.

That's rape talk (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 04:18:18 PM PST
Power shouldn't have anything to do with sex. It is simply not a reasonable adult attitude to use sex as a power game. Linking power and sex results in the outlook of a rapist, since rape is the ultimate expression of power through sex. That is the essence of rape, and it is an attitude common only to the most beaten and worthless of failed men. Men worthy of the noun are able to confirm their self-worth without committing an act of violence, implicit or actual, against another person.

Your definition of rape is incorrect. (nt) (none / 0) (#9)
by luisa on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 04:22:46 PM PST

In what sense? (none / 0) (#10)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 04:36:28 PM PST
Rapes are committed by people who have a need to exert power over another person. The sole emotional force behind rape is power. Most rapists are quite ineffectual in their own lives. Their inadequacies drive them to compensatory behaviour. In this sense, rape is an expression of power, or to put it another way, rape is a means for powerless individuals to assure themselves of a power that they don't actually possess.

Date rape is a different thing, though. Date rape is about lust. I'm just talking about the more traditional meaning of the word.

Rape and power (none / 0) (#11)
by SpaceGhoti on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 04:41:36 PM PST
You're partially correct. Rape is about dominance and power, aggression without compassion. However, the difference between rape and power is that rape is done when the target of the act is unwilling. There are both men and women who enjoy being dominated, and willingly surrender themselves to someone else's power. Under such circumstances, people who need the rush of power to achieve satisfaction can do so without resorting to rape.

With the exception of some legal aspects involving age, nothing consensual can be classified as rape.

A troll's true colors.

Explain how I'm partially wrong (none / 0) (#12)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 04:46:21 PM PST
My point is that thinking about sex in terms of power is thinking like a rapist. The fact that there are other perverts who reduce sex to a consensual power game is irrelevant. These people are also thinking like rapists. People who submit to those games suffer from other deficiencies.

Perhaps it's a fine distinction, (none / 0) (#13)
by SpaceGhoti on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 05:05:02 PM PST
But it's an important one. A rapist prefers a victim who is non-consensual. The exercise of power translates to forcing his will on someone who would otherwise reject him. The other group seeks out willing, consensual partners to exercise their power over them, but will not force themselves on the unwilling. Both seek the appearance or sensation of power in their actions, but the issue of consenting partners defines what is an act (and therefore behavior) of rape and what is not.

A troll's true colors.

Well of course (none / 0) (#14)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 05:25:12 PM PST
That's why I said "thinking like a rapist", not "you are a rapist". Notice the fine distinction?

That's the point (none / 0) (#15)
by SpaceGhoti on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 05:35:37 PM PST
A "Dom" doesn't think like a rapist. They both enjoy the exercise of power, but a Dom wouldn't attempt to force sexual relations with someone who was unwilling. A rapist would. That's the critical difference in their thinking.

I understand that you're saying the desire for power through sex is the key element, but I disagree. I believe the issue of consensuality is the primary issue.

A troll's true colors.

Dominating the dead horse (none / 0) (#17)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 06:01:01 PM PST
Both views draw from a similar mindset. To the rapist, the need for power overrides the problem of consensuality. Sado-masochists merely find another, less violent solution. That said, I don't lump sado-masochists together with rapists. I recognise that there is a difference. At least they recognise the power game, unlike wifebeaters and marital rapists. I do think that society would benefit from people not confusing sex with power, however.

Do go on, both of you. (none / 0) (#18)
by RobotSlave on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 06:11:34 PM PST
I find all of this fascinating.

I wouldn't mind if you raised your voices a bit.

© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

Sadobestialnecrophelia (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by SpaceGhoti on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 06:26:02 PM PST
Ah, but there lies the rub. For many people in many different ways, sex is power. Men find power in sex through pleasure, through position (why do you think non-missionary sex is illegal in so many places?) through penetration, et al. Women find power in sex through similar means, but also through control. That it is so common among so many cultures speaks of a far more primal (read: biological) outlook toward sex.

But I agree with you. People confuse sex for so many other things, including love, commitment and power. Humans would benefit by a change in attitude toward sex, and it would mark a significant step in our growth. And yet, I believe there's something inherently linked between our drive for improvement and success and our drive for sex.

Biologically, the sex drive is part of the need to prosper and endure, and humans have taken that drive to an unprecedented degree. I think that blunting that drive could have possible consequences for our future, and I feel that those consequences would have positive and negative elements. On one hand we would be far less destructive and selfish, but on the other hand we could lose a lot of what impels us to see what's around the bend, to push the boundaries and do what we thought was impossible.

This is mere philosophical meandering, and should in no way be taken as observation or a scientific study. It's just how I feel about us as a species. I would love to figure out how to teach the human race how to channel our drives without letting them spill into harmful and destructive paths, but I don't want to curb that drive in the slightest. That's why I place so much emphasis in the distinction between sado-masochism and rape. That fine point could mean the difference between domestication and neutering.

A troll's true colors.

My God, you're fucked up. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by osm on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 06:39:36 PM PST

Why, thank you! (1.00 / 1) (#22)
by SpaceGhoti on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 07:03:44 PM PST
Your few words speak volumes to me. Your flattery will warm me for days to come.

A troll's true colors.

Rape is a misuse of the sex act, which has... (none / 0) (#25)
by luisa on Sun Dec 30th, 2001 at 10:41:17 AM PST
nothing to do with power, as it is intrinsically pure and flawless. Rape's use of sex as the vehicle for depravity does not mean sex has anything to do with domination, power or control of an unwilling party.

Unfortunately (none / 0) (#26)
by SpaceGhoti on Sun Dec 30th, 2001 at 12:32:42 PM PST
Most of what I've read and experienced over the past ten years disagrees with you. It isn't that sex isn't about something wonderful and powerful, but that it's frequently about power as well. This isn't to say that it should be, but that people make it that way.

However, I've already made my position clear, so I won't belabor the point further. I'm willing to agree to disagree with you.

A troll's true colors.

Don't listen to the bad man, Mr. Gibbons! (nt) (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by elenchos on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 07:07:41 PM PST

I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill

Do you know where that idea comes from? (none / 0) (#21)
by elenchos on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 07:02:53 PM PST
That rape is about expressing power rather than sexual desire. Did they interview ten thousand rapists or something? I've been wondering where this "fact" originates for years.

I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill

Speaking for myself (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 10:35:42 PM PST
Martin Amis. I assume he had another source, though.

Dunno, but Jim Goad has much to say on the topic (none / 0) (#27)
by zikzak on Sun Dec 30th, 2001 at 02:28:06 PM PST
If you will permit me to gush a bit about one of my absolute favorite authors, Jim Goad has some of the best writing I've ever seen on the topic. He has been kind enough to put all of ANSWER Me! #4 (The Rape Issue) online, which was awfully nice of him since it became damn hard to find after the obscenity trial.

Jim Goad is by far the world's most adequate writer.

I Can't Remember If This Was Inspired Genius (none / 0) (#28)
by Inden on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 11:29:05 AM PST
In any case, immediately T. R. Gibbons turned the thing into a very traditional discussion of intellectuals about the nature of rape and male power and male self image. Blah blah blah. Lots of takers on that string.

I was also indirectly speaking of the war between the sexes about which it needs apparently to be noted that most men are not rapists nor hitters and therefore the discussion of rape or domestic violence is a side issue.

I'm free (as in beer) and I'll do anything (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by osm on Fri Dec 28th, 2001 at 11:26:20 PM PST

$70, no rough stuff and no animals (NT) (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by dirty monkey man on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 09:38:21 AM PST

What I Should Get (5.00 / 3) (#5)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 02:34:47 PM PST
Week 1: $200 an hour, dinner, drinks and dancing

Week 2: A new Honda Prelude

Week 3: My own apartment and Platinum Visa

Week 4: Huge bouquets of roses every day accompanied by cards professing eternal devotion, resulting in my being creeped out and requesting we stop seeing each other "for a while"

Week 5: Dozens of rambling answering maching messages detailing my being responsible for ruined life, marriage, career, etc.

Week 6: Compliance with restraining order

Week 12: Chance encouner in the street, awkward hellos, comments about piecing life back together, apologies, goodbyes. Wicked feeling of satisfaction

Thanks for clarifying, luisa. (none / 0) (#6)
by RobotSlave on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 02:43:41 PM PST
We knew you'd open up, eventually.

© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

Talking to yourself? (4.00 / 1) (#7)
by tkatchev on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 02:55:55 PM PST

Peace and much love...

Damn. (none / 0) (#16)
by RobotSlave on Sat Dec 29th, 2001 at 05:49:56 PM PST
Did I post that as RobotSlave? Must remind myself to keep better track of these accounts.

© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.


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