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Poll
Oh! I get it!
Yes! 74%
Uh, no. Bye. 25%

Votes: 55

 Are you Adequate?

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Nov 24, 2001
 Comments:
A quick look at the Adequacy.org Traffic Stats page will show you a steep increase in users here in the last week. This is obviously due to the technical problems at Kuro5hin.org, a popular site to be sure, but one that unfortunately relies on Open Source software for critical areas such as their Operating System and their Web Log Engine itself. So now Adequacy.org has had the dubious honor of playing host to the masses of refugees from over there.

This is an unhappy thing for Adequacy.org because this site is not intended for people like them. Adequacy.org is a specialist site for only rare individuals; probably a countably small, finite number of rare individuals. The odds are good that you are not one of those rare individuals, and so the decent thing would be for you to leave.

elitism

More stories about Elitism
What a bunch of elitist indie kids
Memoirs of an Ex-Southpaw: a Report from the Trenches
Arrested Development (Part One): Saving the Human Race
The Real Darwin Awards
Harnessing the Computational Power of Autism
AOL - The Saviour of the Internet
The rise of pseudo-connoisseurship and beer
The Democratization of Status. Rap music is to blame.
Celebrating 2000 Years of British Achievement
It's Time We Rounded Up Rich White Males
Why I want to be an American Citizen
God Bless you your Majesty, adequacy.org salutes you!
Hacker Culture and its Misportrayal by Media and Government
Engineers, the silent, Anti-Social Killers

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Kill Yr Idols: God
Monsters Incorporated: Film Review and Merchandise Buyer's Guide.
Review: The Spitfire Tour at EWU Nov. 20
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The End of Hacking: A Holiday Un-Buyer's Guide
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Teenage problems, teenage solutions.
No, you STILL can't look at Kate or Ashley, and if you do you are a filthy pervert.
Since we now have an exceptionally large number of uninvited new users, now would be a good time to go over some of the things that make you "Adequate" and what things do not. As a first approximation, it is safe to guess that we really don't want you here. If you persist in thinking you are the exception, read on and we shall see about that.

If you haven't followed the first link in this article, go back and click on it now. Can you see the traffic stats? Or did you get a 404?

The Traffic Stats page is one of the special pages that only Adequacy.org editors can see. Aside from them and their close friends, and perhaps three or four other people, no one can view the Special Pages. I bring this up to make an important point about how Adequacy.org is supposed to work.

Here I am, placing this article on the front page of Adequacy.org for "all" to read, yet the very first link, the one that the whole article rests upon, is not viewable by the general public. A problem? No, not in the least. I don't care about anyone reading this or understanding it besides the other editors and their select associates. The small Adequacy.org in-crowd is one of the most educated, insightful and talented cliques to be found anywhere on the Internet. The opinions of a group like this carry enormous weight amongst the intelligentsia, the public intellectuals whose ideas filter down to the popular opinion-makers whose words in turn influence the reading public and the digerati, and thence to the masses at large. Ideas flow in one direction here: downwards, from the betters to their inferiors.

So a typical Adequacy.org article is a piece of this ongoing conversation amongst these top public intellectuals, and we don't want intruders coming along disrupting the synergistic power of that exclusive dialogue. Most common people, such as the "Kurobots," meaning typical Kur5hin.org users, don't belong in that kind of conversation. They generally aren't capable of understanding it, and won't live long enough to ever "get it," to use a popular catchphrase.

Let me use my girlfriend poltroon as an example of what I'm getting at. Like others associated with the Adequacy.org inner-circle, she is exceptionally talented in many different fields: as a highly sought-after software developer at the world's leader in computer graphics research, tools production, and original content creation. At the same time, poltroon is an artist whose work is a glimpse at where the rest of the world of visual arts will be in five years or more.

She has created paintings and drawings such as this portrait, and this still life. Or this scene. Quite nice, right? This is the kind of art that the public loves and pays top dollar for. You can understand it and you can see the skill that went into it. This artist really knows how to draw, doesn't she?

Yes indeed. Now... listen.

Poltroon hasn't made anything like that in over twelve years. Those accessible and comprehensible works were done before the artist was in her early teens. They are childhood doodles, and when it was recently suggested that she perhaps make a few more paintings like that, just to please people, she replied "but then I would be a prostitute."

If you have ever checked out poltroon's portfolio site, you know that her recent work is nothing like that. The kind of thing she does now, in response to her true artistic feeling, is not accessible at all to those of you who like the fox and rabbit painting so much. They have those at Amazon.com, by the way. Perhaps you should be shopping there right now, instead of pretending you belong at Adequacy.org, no?

Each in his and her own way, all of the Adequacy.org editors create work that is similarly inaccessible to the typical vocationally but illiberally educated sysadmins and web monkeys that populate sites like the lately off-line Kuro5hin.org. When they blunder over here to Adequacy.org, they are usually put off quickly and never return. Inexplicably, some of these lowbrows don't leave. They sometimes react strongly to the issues that they think they have been invited to "debate" with the Adequacy.org staff, and so hang around trying to match wits with them. Or, sadly, they see humor here. They can't understand the art of this site, and so deal with it by telling themselves it is some kind of joke. They call it "parody" or "satire."

It isn't. But of course they -- you -- don't understand at all.

This should be enough to tell you that you don't belong here and clearly are not wanted. But what I observe happens is that many of these simple fools will tell themselves that they really do like this kind of stuff. Pretend that they understand it, when they really can't fathom a bit of it. So the point of this article is to try to convince you to be honest with yourself. Why keep pretending, anyway? What can you possibly gain by deluding yourself into thinking that you would want a painting like this one hanging in your home. Does it really speak to you at all? Do you even like looking at it? If you were forced to explain what the work is saying, you couldn't do it to save your life, could you? Could you name even one of the references in it? Explicate even one of the symbols? No, you could not.

There is no shame in admitting it. Go ahead admit what you are thinking: It's just intellectual snobbery. Insufferable arrogance. The emperor has no clothes. That's not art! It's crap! My kid sister could draw better than that!

There, there. You believe it. You know it in your bones. Is there any conceivable reason to pretend otherwise? Do you think you are impressing anyone by pretending you're "Adequate"? You aren't.

There. Can I be any more clear about this? Is there any room for misinterpretation here? No. It is crystal clear: you don't belong at Adequacy.org, and Adequacy.org doesn't want you. Other places want you, and you know you are happier there. So don't stay. Go. Go! Get lost already, please?


what of... (3.00 / 4) (#9)
by Husaria on Sat Nov 24th, 2001 at 09:46:45 PM PST
us pre-k5 and pre-geekzoid people? the ones who came along when this site was orignally made? what is to become of us? are we to go to Slashdot? <slaps himself for mentioning it>
Sig sigger

 
Dear MR. Elenchoon (2.33 / 3) (#11)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Nov 24th, 2001 at 10:22:53 PM PST
I go becase i have the special problems to the alt.health.why.my.pee.red usenet groop and i get many hlpfull ideas to help with my special problems like the epsom salt and lime juce thing and i write "who thingks up the good ideas?" And they write "it is the smart peopl at Aedquacy.org. So i com to this site but i do not undeardstn the topic s of disucsson they are to high level i am not a smaert like you. So now i read yor article and I kno i am not intelligence enough to be on the Aequdcy.org. I will go back to alt.health.why.my.pee.red were i belonng. k thx bye


 
Buahahahahahaha! (1.75 / 4) (#12)
by SpaceGhoti on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 12:56:25 AM PST
The small Adequacy.org in-crowd is one of the most educated, insightful and talented cliques to be found anywhere on the Internet. The opinions of a group like this carry enormous weight amongst the intelligentsia, the public intellectuals whose ideas filter down to the popular opinion-makers whose words in turn influence the reading public and the digirati, and thence to the masses at large.

Oh gods, that was good! Thank you, that was the best I've heard all week! Yes yes, I know, my amusement is going to get me zeroed. But I had to thank you anyway. It's good to know that your inclusion among the Editors hasn't violated any standards.

They've been telling me this isn't the site for me since 07/13/2001 10:27:33 AM EAST, but I don't care. I love reading stuff like this and inviting others to laugh with me. It beats working.



A troll's true colors.

You are what's wrong with Australia today (5.00 / 3) (#13)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 01:52:30 AM PST
It beats working.

That pretty much says it all. Why is the fact that something is preferable to working justification for anything? Where is your work ethic? Any excuse to down shovels is acceptable, is that it? Why do you think that the fact that you treat adequacy like some kind of internet "smoko" makes it ok for you to be here?

I get it. You were being nonchalant, in order to indicate that it really doesn't matter so much to you whether you are here or not. An attempt, I assume, to imply that there is something lacking in those who are so annoyed at you being here. Unfortunately, the unintended implication is that you do not know how to spend your free time well or your work-time profitably. Any internet site is a good way to throw another few minutes of your life away doing something you don't really care about. Is this really a great way to spend the limited time that you have? If you died tomorrow, would you be content knowing that you spent the last days of your life posting on adequacy?

If your parents knew that you would spend your working life dodging responsibility on internet sites that you don't really care for, do you think they would have gone to the trouble of raising you?


Lazy layabout (none / 0) (#16)
by SpaceGhoti on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 03:33:07 AM PST
Unfortunately, my job description includes staying home full-time while my wife goes to work. Ordinarily I would want to be the one heading out to be the bread-winner, but our daughter is still too young for day care and my wife got the first job offer. So when I'm not cooking (badly), cleaning, washing up, feeding the baby, cleaning the baby or attempting to entertain the baby, I get online and see what's going on in the world.

Then, once I've taken a look at what the Web has to offer, I come here to remind myself that no matter how bad the world can get, it could always get worse.

Thus far, the Australian Immigration Department has not chosen to complain about my job status.



A troll's true colors.

I applaud your progressive outlook (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 12:46:13 AM PST
I'd make some comment about preferring adequacy to children, but I'm far too open-minded for that kind of crap. Besides which, children are property, as tkatchev pointed out.


say hi for me (none / 0) (#56)
by philipm on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 09:30:27 AM PST
that's right - children are property. But unlike that liberal tkachev (masquerading and crossdressing in sheep clothing - like all russians) opinions, children are not high value property. They are hardly worth the trouble of picking up, if they fall. I do not even pick up quarters.

No offence to gotti's daughter, or anything. I definitely would not eat her. That would be completely wrong - I'm sure she is very cute. Say "troll says hi" to her for me gotti.


--philipm

 
Liberalist family "ethics". (none / 0) (#19)
by tkatchev on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 05:17:52 AM PST
If your parents knew that you would spend your working life dodging responsibility on internet sites that you don't really care for, do you think they would have gone to the trouble of raising you?

Oh, I see. So raising a child is nothing but a way of investing your money. Much like a retirement fund. And if your investment doesn't pay off, you can always abandon the brats, or use them for cooking sausage or as sexual toys.

Lord God, it is people like this make me disgusted at being part of the human race.

Forgive me...




--
Peace and much love...




money is life (none / 0) (#33)
by philipm on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 03:03:59 PM PST
first, let me be clear: I am not god.

Do you expect only god can talk to you, but not human beings?

Second, money, like ALL religions can be used for moral or immoral purposes. Why do you not like money? Because it's easier to pretend you are moral?

Second, what is wrong with consuming a renewable resource?

See here what a respected site says.


--philipm

good grief (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 04:23:16 PM PST
Second, money, like ALL religions

Money isnt remotely connected to religion. Money represents our transmutation of the environment in order to satisfy purely biological imperatives such as food and sex. I'm afraid you are confusing materialism with religion.


pray to the dollar you infedel (none / 0) (#57)
by philipm on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 09:37:01 AM PST
Money is a religion, just like science and all those other stupid liberal myths. Do you think you can redefine words until they mean nothing?

Religion is far more material than money could ever hope to be.

For $2, list 3 biological imperatives that religion satisfies,, and that money does not.

And vice versa.


--philipm

 
I'm not against money. (none / 0) (#42)
by tkatchev on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 10:09:38 PM PST
I'm against treatement of children as objects.

I hope you see the difference here.




--
Peace and much love...




Children in history (none / 0) (#43)
by SpaceGhoti on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 10:46:28 PM PST
Traditionally in conversative families, children were resources to be used to help spread out the weight of chores. They were to perform all of the manual labor they were physically capable of. Older children were to watch the younger children. They were expected to be "seen and not heard" around adults, to be respectful to adults at all times and beaten (sometimes severely) if they disobeyed. One of the laws of the good Old Testament Bible was that a child who did not respect his parents was to be stoned to death. Then, once the child was grown and an adult in their own right, that child was expected to take in their now-aged parents, still expected to submit to their will, and take care of them until they died. At which point the child could expect the same of their children.

I'm all for the wisdom that says "train up a child in the way they should go." Teaching a child the lessons they need to survive and prosper as they make their way in the world makes sense to me. In my case, I intend to instill within my child my "godless liberal ethics," which largely involves showing her what I've learned and teaching her to question "truth." I do not expect her to embrace everything that I've learned for myself, only to allow me to protect her until the point that she can stand on her own and make her own decisions. At which point I intend to stand back and let her make those decisions, ready to support and encourage her when she needs it.

As opposed to teaching her the conservative wisdom that, as a female, she's worthless unless she's married and popping out multiple children.

Hmm...which line of thinking do you think objectifies children more? Conservative or liberal?



A troll's true colors.

Objectification. (none / 0) (#45)
by tkatchev on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 02:54:44 AM PST
I think the only objectification going on here is your objectification of conservatives.

Please try to learn what true conservative values[1] are all about, rather than spouting ye olde liberalist propaganda.

[1] 99% of the time, when a liberalist says "conservative values", they simply mean "outdated liberalist values". Liberalist and "conservative"[2] values are really two completely different and orthogonal ways of viewing the world.

[2] Personally, I hate the word "conservative values". It has the stink of a dirty liberalist-invented word to it. I prefer to say "Christian values".


--
Peace and much love...




Values (none / 0) (#46)
by SpaceGhoti on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 05:16:46 AM PST
Well, coming from a staunchly conservative upbringing with Republican parents doing the traditional Christian lifestyle, I rather think I'm familiar with conservative Christian values. My assessment stands. I've only lately come into my "liberalist propaganda" as you put it, so I'm still amused to be labeled as such.

Furthermore, I really don't care what you think of labels or descriptions. You've already established that the meanings of words are irrelevant to you; you'll assign what definitions you prefer. Whether you say "conservative" or "Christian" or "lumbugged," you're the only one who will ever know what you mean. Similarly, your repeated use of "liberal" as an epithet only confirms your inherent weakness. You can't defend your statements, so you fall back on emotion-charged insults to end the debate.

However, feel free to continue to rant and rave with regard to your indefensible positions. Whether or not there's any logic or consistency to them, they're your indefensible positions and you're entitled to hold to them all you wish. Just ignore the snickers in the background.



A troll's true colors.

You're one manly man, aren't you... (none / 0) (#47)
by tkatchev on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 06:50:57 AM PST
Look, I don't care. I don't want to prove anything at all to you and your kind. I'm not the one to be preaching to you; I'm not decent enough and patient enough to be able to preach to ingrates like you.

Those who have ears will hear. You, however, are free to continue to live in blindness and continue to suck up to the dictionary. The first commandment says: "thou shalt not have no other gods before me". You have destroyed God inside you, only to fill the gaping hole inside you with a dictionary.

Each of us is free to shape his destiny, both in the Christian and existentialist sense. You decided to trade your eternal soul for Merriam and Webster. To each his own.




--
Peace and much love...




proof is in the eye of the beholder (none / 0) (#55)
by philipm on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 09:17:36 AM PST
If you didn't want to prove anything, then why are you posting? Maybe you want to prove something to yourself?

Children are objects of affection, love, hate, beatings, tears and dinner just like the rest of us. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Secondly, I am a liberal conservative. Conservative is not the opposite of liberal. That is just a big liberal wymanist myth. To answer the original question by john "space" gotti, which you were far to busy to respond to, it is obviously wymanists which objectificate children - far more than communist liberal conservatives like yourself. I, btw, am a REAL capitalist liberal conservative.

And as for your ideas that liberals should not be allowed to raise children....
I say shame on you. Fie! Fie! Liberals are allowed to eat children just like the rest of us.




--philipm

Socratic discourse, of sorts. (5.00 / 1) (#63)
by tkatchev on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 12:30:18 PM PST
I post because I want to communicate with all sorts of different people, not because I want to prove my own manliness. I believe that people need to talk to as wide an audience as possible, even to people that you would normally consider to be your ideological and social adversaries.

Secondly, why did you decide that I am a communist? I am nothing of the sort. Communism, in essence, is nothing but a secular-humanist form of demon worship. (Not a contradiction, if you know even the least bit of communist history, you'd see how true that is.)

Thirdly, you seem to have missed the killer sarcasm in my original post. I object to the view that children are an "investment". I think that that objectification of children is satanic. (Not in the sense of "abstract evil", rather in the sense "action that appeases satan".)


--
Peace and much love...




 
your problem (none / 0) (#53)
by nathan on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 09:05:24 AM PST
Is that you conflate your values with those of others. American "Conservatives" are nothing of the sort, of course. They're nothing but the same old liberalist revisionists. What, conservative because you uphold Martin Luther? When did the meaning of that one change?

Your other problem is that you believe that you freed yourself from your parents' values by inverting them and repudiating them. Hint: you didn't.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Thanks. (none / 0) (#64)
by tkatchev on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 12:32:58 PM PST
Thank you for the level-headed answer that I was too wound-up to provide myself. I get carried away sometimes; it must be my liberal-arts education.


--
Peace and much love...




my pleasure (n/t) (none / 0) (#111)
by nathan on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 10:24:42 AM PST

--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
o yes (5.00 / 2) (#70)
by johnny ambiguous on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 03:49:25 PM PST
If you died tomorrow, would you be content knowing that you spent the last days of your life posting on adequacy?

O yes indeed! As I hurtled down to eternal Hell I'd reflect thus:

"In that my lost gone life I wasn't bright nor successful, never either well-loved or respected, nor but rarely happy,

    Say I'm weary, say I'm sad;
    Say that health and wealth have miss'd me;
    Say I'm growing old, but add-

at least for a while there I got to be adequate!"

Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net


Getting into my Chevrolet Magic Fire, I drove slowly back to the office. - L. Rosen

I think you mean (none / 0) (#77)
by nathan on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 06:50:13 PM PST
that Jenny got to be adequate.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

jenny? (none / 0) (#79)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 07:05:18 PM PST
Who's jenny?


hugs and kisses (none / 0) (#81)
by nathan on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 07:15:23 PM PST
You lose! But thanks for playing!

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
Bravo! (5.00 / 2) (#14)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 02:36:13 AM PST
This article does an excellent job of telling the new reader <i>exactly</i> what to expect of adequacy.org.

...whether it intends to or not.


 
404 (1.00 / 1) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 03:31:26 AM PST
This is obviously due to the technical problems at Kuro5hin.org , a popular site to be sure, but one that unfortunately relies on Open Source software for critical areas such as their Operating System and their Web Log Engine itself

Here's what it returns the link returns:

Not Found

The requested URL ../../images/mortimer/www2001/index.html was not found on this server.

Apache/1.3.20 Server at www.adequacy.org Port 80

Now what was that you were saying about open source?

Besides anyone who actually visited Kuro5hin.org, and read the description of the porblem, could tell you that it's obviously a hardware problem caused by idiots moving the equipment. So don't attempt to make this out to be like it's a problem with their software.


How many times do we have to go through this? (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 03:49:13 AM PST
You are obviously using an outdated, obsolete, and illegal web browser to view adequacy. You should be aware that this is not only illegal, it violates the specific conditions laid out in adequacy's TOS. Hacking is not cool, nor is it likely to gain you any respect here. It doesn't take brains to be a script kiddie, and you aren't impressing anyone. Please stop hacking into adequacy, before you start a DoS.


Hey, (4.50 / 4) (#18)
by tkatchev on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 05:12:35 AM PST
I'm using an 'illegal' browser. Will you please sue the shit out of me? Really, I dare you. If you can't put up, shut your flapping mouth.

Fucking liberalist authoritarian lackeys. When the government makes sausage out of your liver and lampshades out of your skin, I will be laughing.


--
Peace and much love...




Are you OK today, man? (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 02:40:23 PM PST
You seem a little more cranky than usual. Someone forget to give you your milk or something? All I'm trying to do here is protect adequacy from the threat of internet hack attacks. Why are you getting in my face about this?


Shh (none / 0) (#36)
by SpaceGhoti on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 03:47:55 PM PST
Don't interrupt him now. He's on a holy crusade to Save the World from the Liberal Scare. His purpose is to purify mankind's thinking from even the slightest trace of evil liberalist thought. Even if you thought you were a conservative before, he'll show you the Light.



A troll's true colors.

 
actually they should sue you, or at least ban you (none / 0) (#50)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 07:59:03 AM PST
Fucking liberalist authoritarian lackeys

The adequacy editors aren't being authoritarian - adequacy is their property. That means that they get to decide what you can do to it. If the adequacy editors decide (entirely reasonably in my opinion) that they are not going to tolerate people attacking their servers with hacker browsers, then that is their choice to make.

Maybe in your crypto-communist fantasy world you get to tell other people what they can and can't do with their property, but fortunately this is America, and here we have rights that other people can't just trample over. Until you and your socialist buddies are in charge I suggest you shut the hell up and fuck off back to Cuba.


only you (none / 0) (#51)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 08:45:48 AM PST
<b>Maybe in your crypto-communist fantasy world you get to tell other people what they can and can't do with their property, but fortunately this is America, and here we have rights that other people can't just trample over.</b>

<p>So this site can only be accessed by Americans? You must one of those stupid asses, like the politicians that think the Internet only exists in America or that American owns the Internet.


 
what's that? (1.00 / 2) (#58)
by NAWL on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 09:48:33 AM PST
they are not going to tolerate people attacking their servers with hacker browsers, then that is their choice to make.

What exactly is a hacker browser? If you are simply using it to browse how is that attacking the server?






Hey, if you consider the fifth grade your senior year, what else can you be besides a pompous jackass?

hack the planet! (none / 0) (#62)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 11:48:16 AM PST
What exactly is a hacker browser?

Any browser other Internet Explorer?

If you are simply using it to browse how is that attacking the server?

There's a lot of stupid people out there that don't know how things work. They think that as long as you are at a site you are sucking bandwidth from the web server until you go to another site. That is simply not true. I issued a page request for where I wanted to go on the site. That's it. I did not issue NUMEROUS page requests to the webserver. That is a DoS Attack.

Then they want to say that some HTML clients are illegal and banned from viewing these web pages and/or header information. Every web browser can do that. Then why can I still view them? "Well our legal department blah blah blah..." What a joke. Well I guess you'll just have to ban them all then, huh? Was I forced to Accept the terms of service for this site at any time? NOPE. Is there any code on the site which does not permit access by specific browsers? NOPE. Then sit and twirl, bitch.


I posted this with Mozilla. So sue me. (none / 0) (#149)
by Pinocchio Poppins on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 01:30:00 PM PST
>What exactly is a hacker browser?

Any browser other Internet Explorer?

In that case, how do the admins test Adequacy.org? They're running Apache (see the message you get if you hit an internal page and you're not an editor), but I assume they're not running Apache on NT. IE isn't available for Linux or BSD.

I posted this using Mozilla 0.9.6. So sue me. By the way, I don't see any link to the TOS on the home page.

--
Pinocchio

 
Hackers browser (none / 0) (#186)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Dec 17th, 2001 at 04:10:06 PM PST
Well actually that comment about any other browser except IE is not true. IE can also be used as a hackers browser, if access to drives is limited IE can be used to browse for files where not permitted. and before the PHF atacks were fixed IE could also be used to alter websites that use CGI.


 
Illegal Web Browser!?! (1.00 / 1) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 05:21:18 AM PST
You are obviously using an outdated, obsolete, and illegal web browser to view adequacy. You should be aware that this is not only illegal, it violates the specific conditions laid out in adequacy's TOS. Hacking is not cool, nor is it likely to gain you any respect here. It doesn't take brains to be a script kiddie, and you aren't impressing anyone. Please stop hacking into adequacy, before you start a DoS.

Internet Explorer 6 is more outdated than the browser I'm using. It's Netscape Navigator 6.2 on WINDOWS. Now shut your pie hole, loser.




elenchos log out? (1.00 / 1) (#22)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 05:30:30 AM PST
Please stop hacking into adequacy, before you start a DoS.

It appears that elenchos is trying to keep up his questionable Computer Scientist lie. So he logs out and posts Anonymously so he doesn't look like a liar and an idiot. The above quote gives him away.

I think DMG is known for doing this too.


What? (5.00 / 1) (#39)
by elenchos on Sun Nov 25th, 2001 at 07:40:46 PM PST
You lost me there, pal. What is it that I'm trying to conceal by this logging out thing? That I think hacking is not "cool"? Why would I want hide my identity to say that? Everyone but a few freaks knows that hacking isn't cool. You make no sense here.

Nor does it make sense to intimate that people who spend their time keeping track of which "web browser" is compliant with this or that standard (this week), or who copied which "browser" technology from whom (this week), are in the Computer Science field. Are you thinking perhaps of System Adminstration, I belive they call it? Or Network, uh, 'Engineering'? I think the young women and men who toil in those menial (but perfectly honorable) trades are usually well versed in such tides of fashion and fortune.

And how does this connect with this accusation of posing as a "questionable" Computer Scientist? The only pose I ever struck was one in the mode of exactly what I am: a quite legitimate Computer Scientist. Nothing "questionable" there, rest assured.

So are you calling me a liar? Or just casting aspersions? If you think I have posted anything false, either by design or accident, then would you be so kind as to point out clearly and directly just what this "falsehood" is? If I have made a single false statement, I will be the first to make apologies and retract and correct it. Simply point it out, if you can.

Thank you for not DoSing the Adequacy.


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


here's one (1.00 / 2) (#48)
by NAWL on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 07:40:43 AM PST
How about your discussions on the legality of viewing HTML source code? Any Computer Scientist knows the HTML is a open standard.

It is perfectly legal to copy and paste uncopyrighted information. Such as if you are teaching yourself to make your own homepage, so as to share information/photos with family and friends.

Say you come across a page with frames. It is perfectly legal for you to copy to source code to put frames on your page. Copying the source code will not place copyrighted pictures for example on your webserver. It will solely provide a link to where they actually reside.

Not to mention that in your artcile which calls for a ban on programming where in which you claim legitimate tool and applications (ie command prompt) as nothing more than hacker tools is an utter insult to computer scientists.

I could continue to go on and on pointing out idiocy that would question you "I AM A COMPUTER SCIENTIST", but I'm not going to waste my time pouring through your posts.

The truth is, is that you have offered absolutely NOTHING to prove you are a computer scientist beyond "I am, I am, WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, why won't you believe me WHAAAAAAAA!" That and stupidity and misinformation.




Hey, if you consider the fifth grade your senior year, what else can you be besides a pompous jackass?

Again, What? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
by elenchos on Mon Nov 26th, 2001 at 05:04:02 PM PST
I know it is not illegal to view source-code. I am well aware of that fact. If it were illegal, then why on Earth would I write this article? In it I argue that we should make it (along with several other things) illegal. If I believed it already was illegal, I wouldn't call for a new law against it?

So I have yet to be informed of posting any false staements. You have not pointed out any here. You don't want to agree with me, so you are trying to harm my reputation and use an ad homeneim attack to discredit me, and I think your motive for these disreputable tactics is becoming obvious to everyone. You are finding out, to your dismay, that I have in fact not made a single untrue statement, and that my logic is completely sound. Thus you should be required by honor to concede that I am in the right. Yet you lack the moral virtue demanded by that requirement, and so instead cast about for other means of fooling the niave into mistrusting me. For shame!

You are, surprisingly, correct in saying I have not proven that I am a Computer Scientist. Those in the field whose points of view matter are already aware of who I am and what my credentials are. Those outside the field have no need to know such things. How would they even recognize my credentials if they saw them? They would not be able to tell my credentials from, from, I don't know... a nude photograph of Natalie Portman, let us say. So why burden them with information they are not capable of digesting?

I have, however, never asked the question "Why won't you believe me?" I know why. It is because you don't belong at Adequacy. Haven't I been saying that all along?

Please try being a little more honest for a change, will you?


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


here's we go (1.00 / 1) (#102)
by NAWL on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 09:16:11 AM PST
We all know that current Micro-Soft products include many "hacking" tools, such as Notepad, the command prompt, telnet, or the "View Source" feature. So what?

Here you claim that view source is a hacking tool. Given that HTML is an open source and is open source is it perfectly legal to VIEW SOURCE. The American government literally cannot turn around and say "sorry it can't be open source anymore" and thus cannot do anything about VIEW SOURCE. Also the command prompt in itself is not a hacker tool. There are many LEGAL and LEGITIMATE things that require the command prompt (as someone said fixing Windows or partitioning a drive before installing an OS like Windows on a computer you built yourself or reinstalling Windows). I suppose you think everyone should just reinstall Windows everytime something get messed up.

This is an example of the hypocricsy of hackers. They are happy to demand that other people be bound by license agreements like the GPL, but they think they have a special privilige to violate licenses they don't find to be advantageous to themselves.

When I buy a DVD I am not presented with a license agreement that states that I must use a specific program to view the movie. It simply states that I cannot copy it or rebroadcast it, such as televising it. Not to mention that DeCSS was ruled by the US Supreme Court as perfectly legal. Do not confuse backwards engineering with blatantly stealing source code. I can backwards engineer CocaCola (perfectly legal) I just cannot call it CocaCola.

BSD was not made by hobbyists.

Yes actually it was. So were a lot of projects. Unix, CP/M. Hell Steve Wozniak (co-founder of Apple computers) built his first computer as a HOBBY. Universities like Univ of California at Berkeley worked on it and developed TCP/IP. These were hobbies that grew into something more. Hobbyists Bill Gates and Paul Allen took their skills and wrote BASIC. By the way niether of them finished college. Bill Gates has an honorary degree. So I guess Bill Gates can't be trusted the hmmm?

If you are working at a university or other major research institution, or at a suitably cleared company, you are a memeber of the professional software engineerig community. You are not a real "hacker".

I point once again to Bill Gates and Paul Allen

These bungling "hackers" contributed nothing of value to FreeBSD, Apache or anything else. Their greatest triumph was Code Red II. Thanks you guys. Good work.

I've already covered this

This whole ad homeniem attack with regard to the origin of Apache is yet another distraction from the issue. You claim that nothing I say is true because you think you've found a mistake in some historical fact. This is like saying that no one should believe anything I say because you discovered that I misspelled a word. Big deal.

How is it that people find so much misinformation and twisting of historical facts in your articles. My suggestion is to do some friggin research! And so what if there was some prototype Apache code out there before it was put into actual productive use at Amazon.com? Where did it originate then? In the basement of a self-taught "hacker" with a ratty beard? Sorry, no. It began at the NCSA. I suggest you take a visit to apache.org for the correct information. Not to mention that Apache has been in use and had been popular long before Amazon.com got ahold of it. What's this about the NCSA? Apache was started by ASF (Apache Software Foundation). NCSA uses Apache. They didn't produce it. So. Mozilla? Sorry. NCSA almuni all the way. Smelly "hackers"? Where? Who? Another case of "hackers" stealing credit for things done by professionals.

Marc Anderson and the other members of the Mosaic team (Mozilla) LEFT NCSA to form Mosaic Communications Corp. alonjg with SGI founder Jim Clark. The company was later renamed Netscape Communications. Hmmm, gee NCSA alumni creating a hacker browser? Say it ain't so.

Many of these same people consider themselves hackers. Software developer and hacker go hand and hand. Why it is that you believe the hackers are just guys with no education sitting in the parents' basement. Who are the guys working at say Microsoft working on the Windows kernel? They're kernel hackers you dumbass!

It all comes down to free speech. One, code is not speech. Speech is done in human language, not in instructions to machines. The courts have made this clear. And two, even if it were speech, is it harmful speech? Why yes, it is.

The US Sumpreme Court seems to think otherwise. See the paragraph where I talk about DeCSS.

I fail to understand how "hackers" can so easily dismiss the billions of dollars lost to things like the Code Red Worm. If it was you getting laid off because your company's profits had sunk too low in this virus and worm filled environment, perhaps you would care. Maybe it is because "hackers" don't have real jobs in the tech sector anyway, so they never feel it.

Many open source programmers (or HACKER as you call them) work at reputable companies and "hack" in their spre time, stupid. You know what really funny is that you went on in some other post about updating Windows (the target of Code Red and it's cousins). Guess who got hit? You think Microsoft would have been better prepared. And they can dismiss it. Why, because the have been warning them for friggin years about security holes. did they listen? No. You know how many emails MS gets about security holes that they do nothing about?

Hell people still can't over the whole fiasco with MS allowing full support for Raw Socket in XP Home Edition. MS says don't worry because using the right equipment and techniques will protect you. Translation: Using eqipment that will cost you thousands and expert networking knowledge will help protect you. The issue is with HOME EDITION. These are benefits home users don't have.

We know for a fact that every usable Open Source application you can name was worked on by credible, professional programmers. We know this because they had university degrees and worked in established research institutions. That a small portion of them want to be labeled "hackers" are like Harvard freshmen in phat baggy pants who want to be called "G". They are just play-acting because it embarrases them to be part of the system.

Duh but there are some that have contributed a lot. Hell there are sixteen year olds that know more about programming that a lot of people with degrees. Many companies including Microsoft are known for not only hiring kids directly out of college but even directly out of high school. And you are still stereotyping hackers.

But you suppose that some amateurs made a contribution too. You're just sure of it, yet where is the evidence?

Well, in Linux there is also a file called credits

Yet every time we can look a the provenance of a useful piece of code, we discover that it did come from a real programmer. All the hard data we have says real software engineers are the ones who make Open Source work.

See above

Who is capable of believeing such flimsy reasoning? Only "hackers". Only a "hacker" would start making up fairy tales about professionals writing viruses.

Obviously you have selective memory or you don't get out much. How many articles have I come across about professionals and University scholars writing viruses to improve AntiVirus software which then escaped. Most viruses aren't viruses. They are bug that exist within the program. Many of them closed source. Not all hackers write viruses or break into networks. Stop steroetyping.

While Micro-Soft should be lauded for steadily deprecating these features and including fewer and fewer in each new iteration of their products, my proposal does not depend on Micro-Soft for deciding what is the right thing.

Funny, thje same once that have been there from the beginning (even before MS OSes had networking capabilities) are still there.

Obviously, future versions of these products would have all of the "hacking" capability completely expunged. Any statment about what Micro-Soft products are capable of now proves nothing about what is legal use and what is "hacking", nor does it tell us what should be allowed in the future.

Seems more like MS is adding more. See the paragraph about full support for RAW Sockets.

Typical'hacker' Anti-Americanism.

This is in reference to someone simply stating that if America made it illegal they wouldn't care because they don't live in America. It has nothing to do with Anti-Americanism. If I don't live in America than I don't have to obey the same laws that American citizens do. I have to follow the laws of my country.

If you are a certified, authorized professional, doing legitimate work, I never suggested that you be denied access to the tools you need. You are attacking a straw-man.

This was in response to a post about a server not booting. Well what about the everyday Joe? What happens when a legitimate program because of a small bug has utterly screwed up Windows? Backup can only do so much. Not to mention that your proposal creates stupid asses that wouldn't know how to do anything beyond point and click. Not to mention that stupid people won't backup as often as necessary. What do you do. Reinstall Windows and lose your stuff. Maybe you call tech support? But tech support walks you through fixing the problem. But they can't because the tools they need aren't in Windows? I know make a house call EVERY-FRIGGIN-TIME. Your entire response to that post was comical.

Lunix is a OS by "hackers" for "hackers.

Linux is a kernel

Linux Torvalds was obviously qualified to go to a university, and did his famous work at a university.

No he did his famous work from home. Sorry to tell you but he even states that when talking about how he started the 'hobby'.

Does it ever bug you that you are getting your belief system from data collected in places that don't exist anywhere but in some author's imagination? Doesn't that sort of chip away at the old foundation? At all?

I think this particular response was given because someone killed your stereotypical definition of a hacker. I found the same definition in numerous places and using google. You know google, the place you say anyone can find the answer to a question because you lack the knowledge to answer it yourself.

TechEnclopedia (www.techweb.com/enclopedia):

Hacker

A person who writes programs in assembly language or in system-level languages, such as C. Although it may refer to any programmer, it implies very tedious "hacking away" at the bits and bytes.

Since it takes an experienced hacker to gain unauthorized entrance into a secure computer to extract information and/or perform some prank or mischief at the site, the term has become synonymous with "cracker," a person that performs an illegal act. This use of the term is not appreciated by the overwhelming majority of hackers who are honest professionals. See hack, samurai and cracker.

Webopedia (www.webopedia.com):

Hacker

A slang term for a computer enthusiast, i.e., a person who enjoys learning programming languages and computer systems and can often be considered an expert on the subject(s). Among professional programmers, depending on how it used, the term can be either complimentary or derogatory, although it is developing an increasingly derogatory connotation. The pejorative sense of hacker is becoming more prominent largely because the popular press has coopted the term to refer to individuals who gain unauthorized access to computer systems for the purpose of stealing and corrupting data. Hackers, themselves, maintain that the proper term for such individuals is cracker.








Hey, if you consider the fifth grade your senior year, what else can you be besides a pompous jackass?

something else (none / 0) (#104)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 09:42:17 AM PST
****For example, if PGP is so useless, then let's outlaw it. Obviously, if as you claim, it is of no use to terrorists, because it is so easily intercepted, then no one will miss it. Or else perhaps it is useful to terrorists, in which case it is harmful. Ban it either way." ****

Yes, let's ban Pretty Good Protection. Terrorist could use this for email. Although it's not exactly that secure so it could be intercepted.

****a popular site to be sure, but one that unfortunately relies on Open Source software for critical areas such as their Operating System and their Web Log Engine itself.*****

Not only does adequacy.org use open source software but it runs on a Unix variant (FreeBSD). Maybe now people will stop all this "we only run windows 2000" crap.


 
This verbal terrorism will be held against you. (5.00 / 1) (#132)
by elenchos on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 09:53:01 PM PST
If you think you are helping your "hacker" co-conspirators by this kind of character assassination, you are truly so out of touch with the most mundane of social reality that taking away your rights will be easier than getting Natalie Portman to sign up for breast implants. Your vicious ranting and below-the-belt insults only alarm people, and your threats to "hack" anyone who opposes you are a source of genuine fear. These threats are taken completly seriously, you know.

I can bag together several of what you must think amounts to damning arguments and dismiss them at a stroke. You say that Notepad is not a "hacking" tool, but then say that numerous respectable programmers are in fact "hackers", according to your clique's private jargon. If so, then Notepad is a tool that may be used for programming by these "hackers". By that alone, it must be a "hacking" tool. By any definition, if it allows the means to "hack", it is a tool for "hacking", and thus a "hacker's" tool.

And can we ban them? Hell yes, we can ban any damn thing we want. We banned Marijuana, you know. It used to be everywhere. Cocaine too. And Freon. All kinds of things can be banned. Ultimately, a house-to-house search will be required, but many countries have done such things before with great success. Why not the greatest nation on Earth? And we can make it quite cost effective by gathering up all the guns in everyone's homes at the same time.

The important thing to remember is that the only ones who might complain spend their time musing on whether not wearing any deodorant really does have anything to do with never getting laid. The congressional record is clear: g**ks have zero political influence, and so do not count. So, YES, we can do it! And we shall.

The rest of your blather is just a buch of names. You are supposed to be proving that amateurs can develop useful software! And you do so by informing us of the existence of a credits file in Lunix. Inside this file we find a list of names. And...? This proves what?

If you knew anything about how Open-Source projects really go, you would know that the kiddies on that list spend their times introducing bugs, and the pros went around fixing them, and in spite of it all, got some of these vaunted Open-Source projects to work, no thanks to the "hackers". You wish to believe that hobbyists actually helped in a useful way, but you can't prove it, can you? Silly corporate myths about Apple's Steve Wojahowiz and Micro-Soft's Bill Gates... Sigh.

Micro-Soft. They are your father totem, aren't they? They legitimize your world and give you the standard for what is right and normal, yet you chafe at the authority they therby have over you, and so attack them with a kind of neurotic irrationality that flat-out scares people. God.

Finally, if you are going to try to use a dictionary to win arguments, at least use a real dictionary. Wikipedia is a silly toy "hacker" project, based on the same utopian dreams that the failed Mo-Zilla and Lunix schemes were based on.

Nobody takes that stuff seriously.


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


I still haven't heard from any lawyers. (none / 0) (#136)
by chuckx on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 05:37:16 AM PST
You wish to believe that hobbyists actually helped in a useful way, but you can't prove it, can you?
You never replied to this post. I think it adequately shows that 'amateurs' do make contributions to open source software.

Finally, if you are going to try to use a dictionary to win arguments, at least use a real dictionary.
These definitions are from dictionary.com.

hack·er1 (hkr)
n. Informal
1. One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
2. One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file.

Some people prefer the first definition. Others prefer the second. I don't consider that a problem, except when people become hardheaded when trying to differentiate between the two.


- chuckx -

 
notepad=hacker tool? (none / 0) (#138)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 07:42:25 AM PST
Well if notepad is such a bad hacker tool we should ban it then shouldn't we? Along with MS Word too write? HaHa, gotch ya cocksucker!

and your threats to "hack" anyone who opposes you are a source of genuine fear.

Now you are resulting to making stuff up? where did I threaten to hack anyone? You're making stuff up simply because you have NOTHING!


 
myth? (none / 0) (#140)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 08:37:28 AM PST
Silly corporate myths about Apple's Steve Wojahowiz and Micro-Soft's Bill Gates... Sigh.

DAMN YOU ARE SO FUCKING STUPID!

Steve Wozniak was the co-founder along with Steve Jobs you dumb cock sucker. Where did Wozniak and Jobs sell their first computer (Aple I)? Same place Steve Wozniak got his first kit. The Homebrew Computer Club. I seriously suggest you visit Steve Wozniak's homepage (www.woz.org). Here's more information about Steve Wozniak (aka WOZ) >>>http://www.apple.com/usergroups/spotlight/breakfast/

Bill Gates DID drop out of college. Both he and Paul Allen (co-founder of Microsoft).

Here stupid shit:

In his junior year, Gates left Harvard to devote his energies to Microsoft, a company he had begun in 1975 with his childhood friend Paul Allen.

Wanna read more?

http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/bio.asp

Hell they made a movie about this shit you DUMB ASS STUPID MOTHER FUCKING MORON. Although not entirely accurate you should rent it. It's called "Pirates of Silcon Valley".

Finally, if you are going to try to use a dictionary to win arguments, at least use a real dictionary. Wikipedia is a silly toy "hacker" project, based on the same utopian dreams that the failed Mo-Zilla and Lunix schemes were based on.

You know who Ziff-Davis is right? Big time publisher of countless computer magazine like PCMagazine, EGM, OPM, ExtremeTech, eWeek, ZiffDavis Smart Business. Not to mention ZDNet, C|Net, download.com, and countless other projects including WEBOPEDIA. Give me ANY online dictionary or encyclopedia I'll give you the same goddamn definitions.

The only reason I present Microsoft is because YOU jackoffs think Microsoft is some how this holier than thou art. It seems you believe it to be truth if it comes from MS. Other than that it's a GEEK MYTH. Everytime someone presents you with a FACT that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, you run off screaming "that's just a geek myth". Get you fucking head out of your ass!

Excuse my language but your stupididty has really pissed me off.


Your language... (none / 0) (#141)
by elenchos on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 09:54:20 AM PST
...is all the more evidence of the vindictive and violent nature of Lunixers. I blame your degenerate state on television, Hollywood, the internet, and drugs. Which is not to diminish the culpability of Open Source ringleaders such as ESR who encourage this kind of verbal terrorism and personal assault.

Since we seem to agree as to your lack of moral virtue, and of course basic self control, I won't bother debating the "arguments" you present in between your barrages of filth and contumley.

Have you thought about how well your personality will go over during the congressional hearings for the Ban Programming Bill? You will be escorted from the premises before you finish your second sentence.


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


hmmmmm (none / 0) (#145)
by NAWL on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 11:38:10 AM PST
I have never conversed with any as stupid as you. It's very rare that I lose my temper. The thing that really gets me is that you can prove something beyond a shadow of a doubt and you still won't believe it. I say Steve Wozniak and you say he's a "geek myth". Same goes for Gates dropping outta school. Then you ramble on about Microsoft as a farther figure. Nope. The reason people mention MS so much is that you don't believe anything unless it comes straight from Bill Gate's asshole.

Have you thought about how well your personality will go over during the congressional hearings for the Ban Programming Bill? You will be escorted from the premises before you finish your second sentence.

When is that? Two weeks from never? Show me a Senator or Repreentative that is pushing the Ban Programming Bill and a link to their website or a story about it.




Hey, if you consider the fifth grade your senior year, what else can you be besides a pompous jackass?

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