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My mode is:
*NT* 63%
*NF* 26%
*ST* 8%
*SF* 1%

Votes: 215

 Using the Myers-Briggs System for a Better Society

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Oct 10, 2001
 Comments:

The Myers-Briggs personality test stems from the pioneering work of the psychologist Carl Jung. It was he who first introduced the idea that all humans have a psychological type, but it was not until Katherine C. Briggs and Isabel Briggs Myers joined the research some years later that our modern understanding of the personality types was born.

Before reading this article, I urge all readers to take the test, so they can see where they fit into the societal hierarchy I outline below.

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We now know that every human being can be categorically placed in any one of sixteen distinct personality types. These personality types depend on four qualities, which I outline below:

Flow of Energy E or I, Extroverted or Introverted. How do we recieve the important part of our stimulation? From within ourselves or from external sources? Is the dominant function focused internally or externally?
How we take in Information N or S, iNtuitive or Sensing. Do we trust our 5 senses, or do we prefer to rely on instincts?
How we prefer to make decisions T or F, Thinking or Feeling. Logic and objective consideration, or personal and subjective value systems?
The basic day to day lifestyle we prefer J or P, Judging or Perceiving. Organised and purposeful or flexible and diverse?

We can see that it is dead easy to tell which one of these somebody belongs to. The delightful thing about Myers-Briggs is how easy it is to classify people - one can just talk to someone for a few hours, and tell fairly quickly which of the above categories they fall into. What is interesting is the natural roles each type tends to play. It is important for any manager, government official, parent or lover to be thoroughly grounded in all aspects of the Myers-Briggss personality system. From a management perspective, one can create harmonious working groups of people by considering the proper station of each type, and in one's personal life one can easily predict the behaviour of others.

It is such a wonderful method of prescribing and boxing in the behaviour of human beings, that properly armed with the knowledge and a suitable INTP to do the mathematical grunt work one can easily predict and control the behaviour of large numbers of people. Although we should focus on using Myers-Briggss tests for this, we should also incorporate related disciplines such as Chinese astrology (not fake Western astrology), numerology and graphology. It seems to me that we should encourage our government, companies and families to reorganise all social activity on the basis of Myers-Briggs personality types. So much unhappiness is caused because people don't get along with each other, because sensitive and brilliant FP's are paired with callous and judgemental TJ's, or nurturing, affirmitive FJ's with cold, mechanical TP's. All personality types have a natural partner, and tend to get on well with some other personality types and less well with others. All the strife in our society could be solved at a stroke if everyone knew their own type, and if everyone was nurtured and engaged with the right people to do the right job and marry the right person, guided by the omniscience of some centralised personality database. We could forge a new and better society, and so easily!

Here I present a schema for how things should be organised, and where every personality type should be placed in the grand scheme.

At the bottom - INTP, INTJ. Here we should have all the INT's - that is to say, the iNtuitive Thinkers, be they judging or perceiving. These types tend to care very little about other human beings, as they value logic and are very cold. They live in thir own mathematical world, removed from all human concerns. The INTPs are the lowest of the low, and can also be quite dangerous. They are best left to work on simple tasks that all the other types hate, as they have very high boredom thresholds and can be left to work on boring columns of figures, or program computers, or work on assembly lines, without any real personal problems. They enjoy being ordered around and told what to do, and as long as their orders don't involve interacting with other people they are very happy. These types are very autistic in nature, and like most idiot savants they can sometimes show a remarkable facility for impressive but ultimately useless tasks, such as typesetting in TeX or memorising Star Trek dialogue. These types tend to look quite thin and pasty, and take little care over their personal appearance. They often have small, peering eyes and tend to be quite short and ugly. Spots are common. They do not make suitable romantic mates for anyone, and are really best kept away from the opposite sex.

Second rung up - ENTP, ENTJ. These types also tend to be rationalists, but do at least engage with other people. Unfortunately, then tend to try and control others, and have little in the way of empathy despite their outgoing natures. They are best used to keep the INTPs and INTJs in their place. This type make excellent police officers, regimental seargant majors, and disciplinarians of all sorts. Because they don't care about other people, and only like to abuse them, it is important that they are not given important leadership roles, but still a good idea to give some sort of leadership role nonetheless. Ideally they should be put in charge of the bottom groups, as this will allow the ENT*s to feel they are in command of someone, and the INT*s are so pathetic and withdrawn anyway that they won't care or even notice that they are being abused. ENT*'s tend to have big chins and pronounced foreheads, somewhat like Neanderthals. They are easily spotted.

Towards the Middle - ENFJ, ENFP. The ENF*'s have good people skills, and are very people orientated. Females make very good HR managers, nurses, courtesans and prostitutes, and males of this type can excell in the medical profession, serving their betters. Although they tend to be very sensitive, they put themselves before others so it is OK to treat them badly, though only up to a point. Because they love people so much, they tend to be very unfaithful, and they are very good at making people feel guilty. These types tend to be somewhat normal looking, but often have bad taste in clothes. They often have unusually small heads.

The Middle Classes - ISTJ, ISTP. The ISTJ's are quiet and like security. Theywork very hard and have good powers of concetration, whilst the ISTP's tend to be quite practical and even, when threatened, risk taking. These types make excellent soldiers and officers, and ideally all members of the army should come from these groups. Solid and dependable, and plain looking, they are like 1950's tweed clothed Britons in terms of their stoic, unimaginative determination to overcome.

Rising on Up - ISFJ, ISFP. At last we come to types that do not promote or create violent situations. The ISF*s are very peaceful and hate conflict. For this reason, they should be placed in charge of all those I have already mentioned, wherever possible. They should be teachers and also research the hard sciences. Unlike the INTP's, they can be trusted with the responsibility of science, for they will not develop nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, or even technologies that can be perverted to create them, their ethics and hatred of conflict is so great. These types tend to have square heads and bulky bodies, and like to dress conservatively.

Lower Upper Classes - ESFJ, ESFP, INFJ. The first two types are superb, for they are wonderfully charismatic. They also tend to be rather good looking, and their radiance inspires all whom it touches. They love newness and fun, and so are good to keep around as entertainers. Actors, artists, and circus performers should be drawn from them. The INFJ's are also very good, and although they tend to be individualistic rather than team players, they should most definitely be valued for their high intelligence.

Ruling Class - ESTP, ESTJ. This type are very good at sports, very good looking, outgoing, sociable, and can always get a date. They are natural leaders, and the other types tend to be jealous of them. If they are closely bound in the workplace with ESF*s though, then the other types will come to accept them thanks to the overpowering combination of good looks and charisma. Many of this type tend to play college football and suchlike at High Schools, and then move on to become highly successful corporate businessmen. They tend to have lovely hair, blue eyes and fair skin.

The Apex - INFP. This type deserves a mention all of its own, it is truly the most advanced, good looking, and caring of all the types. It's value system is so advanced, and its empathy so pronounced, that members of this type should be forced to become leaders, against their own natural modesty. INFP's are really a sort of super-race, seperated off from other mere mortals.

I believe that if we organise our society with this natural hierarchy in mind, social and racial disharmony, hatred, loneliness, and depression will be eliminated for all time. For each according to his needs will be the watchword of this new world, and with the intelligent, feeling and empathetic INFP's in charge of it all we can be sure that such a seemingly autocratic society won't suffer from totalitarian injustice of any sort. Truly, we have the power, with a just a few simple adjustments to how we think of organising such things as marriage, friendship, and private enterprise, to eliminate all unhappiness forever. What are we waiting for?

(NB The author is an INFP himself, and so this article is guaranteed to be unbiased)




As an INFP, (5.00 / 2) (#11)
by Anonymous Coward on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:18:05 PM PST
I'd just like to say that I'd always hated Meyers-Briggs and have never cared much for any kind of typing system which I've always considered superficial at best. They blur our uniqueness in a way that is suitible for market researchers, racists, and anyone who thinks they understand more than they do.

That said, I took the test because I wondered if my hate would change through participation, and because I hadn't taken it in a long time and so didn't know my "sign."

And yet my hate persists. Am I judging despite my 'P' rating? I found the questions too vague to answer much of the time. Do I like such-and-such? Well, sometime, sometimes not. And so forth. And yet my intuition tells me meyers-briggs is fascist. And my feeling is one of despair. Were I more of an I, I would, perhaps not bother responding in the first place.
-- Support the home page homeless.

Even more fun: (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:29:45 PM PST
I took the test three times in a row, and got different results each time; and it's not like I did this on purpose. I honestly tried to answer questions honestly each time. The problem is that those questions can't really be answered in a "yes/no" fashion. (Like, "I feel uncomfortable in crowds." WTF?)


--
Peace and much love...




You must have high T (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by bc on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:46:30 PM PST
Though I hesitate to make hasty conclusions when I don't know you much, I would suggest that you have a high T or Thinking preference, and so are bringing rather too much logic and scepticism to bear on this test.

I humbly suggest you get in touch with your feeling side a bit more, to offset the rationalism of the high T.


♥, bc.

Ha. (none / 0) (#19)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:53:46 PM PST
Dude, that's too funny. Anybody who knows me even passingly would have a field day with your comment. Just too funny, because I'm just about as anti-rational as you can get. Seriously, you could not have been more off-base in your judgement.


--
Peace and much love...




No (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by bc on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 02:18:54 PM PST
It doesn't mean you are a mathematician or that you use formal logic a lot, just that you have a rational mindset. You are quite clearly of that stamp - someone with high 'F' would never describe themselves as an 'anti-rationalist'.

You hate rationalism in a rational manner.


♥, bc.

Actually, (none / 0) (#39)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 10:13:21 PM PST
all of the times I've taken the test, I've gotten high "F" values.

P.S. No, I don't have a "rational mindset". Seriously, that's just plain bullshit. Sorry.


--
Peace and much love...




None dare call it reason (none / 0) (#123)
by Anonymous Coward on Mon Dec 31st, 2001 at 05:30:36 PM PST
You hate when you're called rational, don't you? It's like an insult. And yet you rationally argue back. You hate me for saying this, don't you?
-- Support the home page homeless.

 
Re: You must have high T (none / 0) (#110)
by madscientist on Sat Oct 20th, 2001 at 02:00:59 PM PST
Maybe you need to get more into your logical side. Again, you have not explained to me what is wrong with logic and rationality.


 
lowest of the low (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by alprazolam on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 03:10:05 PM PST
(Like, "I feel uncomfortable in crowds." WTF?)

Huh? Why is that hard. The answer is obviously "Yes, unless I'm severely intoxicated."

Now a question like You often feel hot or You often become totally absorbed in your work are a bit more difficult, and don't seem very useful.


hot flash (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by johnny ambiguous on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 08:07:58 PM PST
> Now a question like You often feel hot...

I don't get it. What if you live in Florida? Of course you feel hot for months on end! Does that mean climate creates personality? And if so, what kind of personality? If you answer "yes" what horrible state of disfunction does that necessarily imply for you? I can't afford to move, I have a family, I'm afraid to look! Don't tell me either.

Yours WD "sweating" K - WKiernan@concentric.net


Getting into my Chevrolet Magic Fire, I drove slowly back to the office. - L. Rosen

 
Us NT's might as well kill ourselves (none / 0) (#128)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 20th, 2002 at 12:07:35 PM PST
Quote "Progress is guranteed, throw enough INT*'s at the problem, and it will inevitably be solved, just like the farmer spreading seed on fertile ground."

I'm sure your system will fall apart in no time if its success is so dependent on NT's whom you consider most inferior.


 
Pop-psy. (none / 0) (#12)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:25:56 PM PST
Psychology for Dummies.


--
Peace and much love...




Re: Psychology for dummies. (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:51:09 PM PST
...and the government. The test is used for security clearance screening for agencies like the Dept. of Energy. A waste of an afternoon for a pretty blue badge if you ask me.



Yeah, but... (none / 0) (#20)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:56:00 PM PST
...I honestly don't care what they do in totalitarian societies. (Like the U.S.) Just like I don't care what tests you need to take to join the Taliban.


--
Peace and much love...




alright buddy... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 09:49:27 PM PST
Some of us have had enough of your attitude.

I don't care who you are, don't talk bad about the United States of America.

In case your sorry Russian behind has forgotten: We won the cold war. And we could do it again any time we want to.

Keep that in mind the next time you feel the urge to say something stupid.




Like I care. (none / 0) (#38)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 10:04:31 PM PST
Seriously, "buddy", I really don't care what goes on behind closed doors in totalitarian societies; likewise, I don't really care which fascist superpower-of-the-decade is trying to "kick my ass" -- you won't be the first, and you certainly won't be the last.


--
Peace and much love...




Just out of interest... (none / 0) (#45)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 03:08:43 AM PST
Which fascist superpowers have tried to kick your ass in the past? Was it a personal ass-kicking attempt, or as part of a more widespread ass-kicking initiative?


So far only two. (none / 0) (#46)
by tkatchev on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 04:01:32 AM PST
The xUSSR and the United States of Amerika. Of course, a fascist superpower cannot exist unless it is perpetually involved in massive ass-kicking of everyone; regular people like me just get in the way.


--
Peace and much love...




The truth about fascism (none / 0) (#47)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 04:11:17 AM PST
The way fascism works, usually regular people are the ones who carry the fascists to power. It's pretty easy to conclude that if you are living in a fascist state, it's your own stupid fault, and the ass-kicking you get is the ass-kicking you had coming to you.


Like I care. (none / 0) (#48)
by tkatchev on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 06:11:51 AM PST
If I'm having my ass kicked at the moment, chances are I won't be pondering the philosophical and social implications of fascism.


--
Peace and much love...




Bend over (none / 0) (#53)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:20:07 AM PST
If you're getting your ass kicked, it's because you're a feeler. If you were a thinker, you'd have figured out how to stop the beatings and taken control of your situation. The resistance is formed not from a bunch of art-loving, poetry-reading pansies, but from machine-making champions of strength and justice. It's your government, change it.


Yeah, brilliant. (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by tkatchev on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:37:44 AM PST
And then the machine-gun toting Champions of Freedom will establish a People's Dictatorship (or maybe Protectorate, that sound better) to ensure that fascism will never happen again. And of course, they'll set up an extensive network of intelligence operatives to find out and punish enemies of Democracy. It's probably OK to just kill them outright -- since they don't respect Democracy, they obvously don't mind spending their life in jail. I applaud your plan -- it is certainly a brilliant and fresh idea. (*sarcasm*, for the g**ks among us.)

P.S. Seriously, though -- poetry probably played a bigger part in the downfall of the Soviet Union than other things put together. Don't underestimate it.


--
Peace and much love...




 
Your thinking is flawed (none / 0) (#73)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 04:40:00 PM PST
Considering Martin Heidegger was a both an important thinker and a prominent supporter of Hitler, the case can hardly be made that thinkers are better than feelers at eliminating fascism. You yourself strike me as exactly the sort of person that fascists are most able to deceive into aiding their rise to power. An INTJ, I assume?


 
huh? (none / 0) (#28)
by alprazolam on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 03:12:15 PM PST
The test is used security clearance screening

No, it's not. Not for actual DoD clearance anyway. Don't know wtf kind of stupid clearance the DoE requires.


DOE clearances (none / 0) (#31)
by claudius on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 03:55:26 PM PST
The DOE runs the nuclear weapons labs, so they have plenty of need for clearances among their employees. And yes, AC is right. In some cases, the test is used to get DOE security clearances--specifically, the "accelerated access programs" for getting a Q clearance (DOE equivalent to Top Secret DoD) can require the personality test in addition to a polygraph test.



 
Help with Myers-Briggs Rating (5.00 / 3) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:26:06 PM PST
I took the test, answered all the questions, and clicked the "SCORE IT" button. The result I got back read as follows:

"If I ever meet you, I WILL KICK YOUR ASS"

Could someone please help me interpret what this means?


Welcome to the club. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:30:22 PM PST
It just means you're an asshole.


--
Peace and much love...




 
INTP (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 01:43:03 PM PST
And so FUCK YOU.

Come and get some you wishy washy emotional piece of third rate dogshit. Just because I use rationalism rather than your touchy feely emotional claptrap you should get on bended knee and repeatedly lick my anus thanking me between slurps for deigning to notice you. If it doesn't 'feel' right I will show you how to rationalize things via the tried and true method of shoving a Luger barrell down your throat and asking the question again.

Put my ass on the bottom rung and I'll inflict upon you disharmony, hatred, loneliness, and depression the likes of which God himself has never seen.


Behold a typical INTP (5.00 / 2) (#26)
by bc on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 02:52:44 PM PST
See the callousness, the hatred of society, the aggressive nature, the desire to put guns down people's throats.

A typical INTP, then, who is best kept on the bottom rung where he can benefit from the guidance of those more emotionally aware and with a more developed ethical system.

That INTPs are allowed to run amock doing as they will is one of the downfalls of our society, IMHO.


♥, bc.

Behold... (none / 0) (#58)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:54:00 AM PST
...cluelesness. That wooshing sound is the previous post going right over your head.


 
More Ignorance (none / 0) (#106)
by madscientist on Sat Oct 20th, 2001 at 12:07:55 PM PST
I was very apalled by your post. You seem to harbor a lot of prejudice in your postings. You accuse us of not having feelings? How about you consider the feelings of INTPs like me before you post inflammatory remarks about us. Your post was very disgraceful, very prejudiced, and not at all rooted in reality. Your post hurt the feelings of many INTPs and INTJs, not only for the inflammatory remarks you posted about us, but also because you posted a lot if misinformation about us. I would like for you to apologize to all of us.


 
what personality type are you if (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 02:08:04 PM PST
after 4 questions you think "fuck this is tiresome" and click on your kuro5hin shortcut instead of finishing the test? I know someone like that. I hope it means females are particularly receptive to such a personality type.


 
Wow (none / 0) (#23)
by Observer on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 02:19:24 PM PST
If only there were a superpower nation which mirrored that social structure. Utopia would surely be upon us, and the glittering shine from the cities would radiate bliss which would break the molecular bonds of smog. Then, everyone could hug each other and impart the capacity of telepathy, whereby we would all become as smart as the smartestest person in the whole wide world. After that, we can use our newfound powers to teleport to alien worlds to teach them of the wonders and ideas which we have refined over the millenia, because we'd all be such a good and homogenous people.

I'm left wondering if the same impact would have been rendered if the order from the bottom to ruling class were reversed.


 
INTJ (5.00 / 4) (#25)
by claudius on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 02:32:47 PM PST
You probably should leave social engineering to the "Mastermind" type (INTJ). It is clear from the rhetoric you proffer that as a lowly INFP you lack the mental discipline and organizational acumen to plan anything so ambitious.

Trust me. I am a scientist.



 
*shudder* (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 03:13:29 PM PST
I looked at a few of the profiles for some of the personalities you picked. The Apex, the INFP, you give great honor to them considering in the description of those people it says they are basically very unsure of themselves. You don't want someone like that as the leader of your society. You want someone who is confident about what they are doing. You also don't want someone who is always trying to please others because eventually everything will become so compromised that no one will get along and agree with the things that have happened.
Just look at the titles that are given to the different types...
The ESFP -- The Performer
The ISFP -- The Composer
The ESTP -- The Promoter
The ISTP -- The Crafter
The ESFJ -- The Provider
The ISFJ -- The Protector
The ESTJ -- The Supervisor
The ISTJ -- The Inspector
The ENFP -- The Champion
The INFP -- The Healer
The ENFJ -- The Teacher
The INFJ -- The Counselor
The ENTP -- The Inventor
The INTP -- The Architect
The ENTJ -- The Field Marshall
The INTJ -- The Mastermind
I don't know about you but I wouldn't want the Architect to be the very bottom of society... Or the Inventor and the Field Marshall in the Second Rung up. And Teachers already don't get enough credit as is. They deserve better than almost middle. What about Champions? Aren't they the ones people idolize are they too only fitting for below middle class? I could go on and on. There is no way to set different personality types in different ranks of society.
I shudder at the thought of this every happening to our society. Those who are natural leaders should be the leaders, not those that have no clue how to lead.
And as for "The author is an INFP himself, and so this article is guaranteed to be unbiased" is total crap. Everyone is biased in some fashion or another especially when it comes to personalities.
I myself am very biased, I wouldn't want to be at the top myself but being of one of the Natural leader classes I'd rather see one of my fellows at the top rather than some fool who is an INFP.


Architecture is a failed discipline (5.00 / 2) (#33)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 04:19:13 PM PST
Have there been any great buildings built in America since 1970? I'm afraid not. The magnificence and originality of design in the fifties and sixties has been suborned by corporatist pragmatism. Modern buildings are designed to maximise profit. The sides of modern skyscrapers are zig-zagged to allow the maximum number of high rent corner offices. There is no room in this occupation for artistry anymore. Modern architecture is drawn more from the World Trade Center than from the Chrysler Corp. Building.

This is the fault of the architects. Architecture once attracted people with a vision, and an aesthetic sense that lead them to construct buildings that defined their cities. Modern architecture attracts would-be artists and designers with delusions of grandeur and no common sense. These INTPs are easily coopted by their corporate masters. Having no strongly developed will or ethics, they easily abandon their half formed ideals and toe the corporate line. Modern architects willingly build what the company wants, with not a trace of originality. Design decisions are made by mid-level MBAs, with no artistic pretensions, but an overwhelming desire to work in big glass buildings.

The architects of the fifties and earlier may have been great artists of construction, but modern architects are feeble creatures of self-obsessed greed. They are engineers masquerading as artists.


Suborned? (1.00 / 2) (#42)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 12:44:01 AM PST
Get a dictionary, you pretentious wanker!


 
Not the fault of architects. (none / 0) (#89)
by jin wicked on Fri Oct 12th, 2001 at 08:32:08 PM PST
Your gripes are with a capitalist system where people with talent are driven to do this kind of thing to survive. Architects design what the people that pay them want. If skyscrapers were more artistic years ago, it is because they were newer at the time and architects were given more liberty to design buildings as they pleased.

It's no different from a talented art student graduating and then draining all his talent making billboards for Chlorox bleach. If you want them making art for the sake of art (or good looking buildings for the sake of it), then support changes or a better system that will allow them to do that. Not everyone is able or willing to suffer and/or die so that you have something prettier to look at.

I personally think they do a pretty good job in many cases, managing to balance their own visions with the guidelines given to them by their employers. Everyone has to eat.


"Ars longa, vita brevis...Art is long, life is short."

 
Standards (none / 0) (#99)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Oct 14th, 2001 at 05:53:28 PM PST
You seem to forget that Architects are held to certian standards and codes. If their ideas do not fit into the codes and standards their idea is useless. You can't build something that could prove unsafe in certain situations even if it is an amazing design. You try and create beautiful and amazing things when you have to follow a bunch of rules. You see while they may be creative, they can only be creative to a certain point otherwise they jump outside the standards and are told no, you can't do that.


 
the mastermind has emotions (none / 0) (#95)
by psych wanderer on Sat Oct 13th, 2001 at 01:53:32 PM PST
As an INTJ myself I find it hard to see myself in the description of the society originally posed. I work in the Psychology profession helping young offenders sort their lives and their often horrific experiences out so that they can function and to some extent - be happy people - as much as anyone can. Is this a sign of non-feeling? or of uselessness to society? I think not, I would rather have someone who is intiuitive any day before soemone who works only from plans/rotas/organization principles. The mastermind has feelings also.


psych wanderer
http://notorious-scifi.com
"The thing I miss the most is my mind"

 
Ahem... (5.00 / 1) (#117)
by xingxtians on Sun Oct 21st, 2001 at 12:37:35 PM PST
"I'd rather see one of my fellows at the top rather than some fool who is an INFP"?


I'm an INFP but at least I got the joke.


 
Thoughts (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 03:26:22 PM PST
You seem to have a lot of major misconceptions about Myers-Briggs types and Jungian psych functions. Feeling, which is different from emotions, is a rational function, and Intuition is not instinct. Also it is not possible to tell what type people are from talking with them for just a few hours. If you think you can you are stereotyping. There is no hierarchy in typologies because no type is inherently better than any other. People might LIKE certain types better than other types, but that says more about people themselves than about the types.

And by the way, probably at least 50% of the people who test as INFP aren't actually introverted feeling types with auxiliary intuition. Although for some people it's "nice" to believe themselves to be INFP.

Carl Jung who thought up these psychological types was an introverted intuitive thinker himself. If you think introverted NTs are so inferior maybe you shouldn't be using this system.


 
why do i read this site? (0.00 / 2) (#32)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 03:59:05 PM PST
if i thought the poster was serious, i'd be kind of upset.

i suppose i keep coming back for the comedy. people who are like our dear poster, are usually quite incapable of spreading their hate from their padded cells.


 
Your system is not maintainable (5.00 / 4) (#34)
by sdem on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 05:17:53 PM PST
OK, so perhaps it is maintainable over several generations, but it would be much less efficient than some of the alternatives.

Quite possibly one of the most efficient ways to maintain a system such as this would be to calculate quotas for each type (i.e. how many of each there are), and regulate births to reflect these numbers. For example, it would probably be wise to allow the lower rungs to breed like rabbits, as there are many dreary and menial tasks that must be performed to keep this nation running in good order.

Now, I'm certainly not one to suggest that the INT*s should come into contact with the opposite sex (that could be disasterous), but rather that they be cloned or otherwise artificially fertilized and incubated.

Which leads me to another point, which is that the act of giving birth, as it stands, is not only incredibly messy and disgusting, but it also causes quite a drain on our nation's resources. Think of all the ice cream and avocados that we would be able to stockpile if we didn't have tons of pregnant women running around and eating everything in sight? It also causes huge cuts in corporate productivity, because as current laws stand, companies are required to give maternity leave to their female employees, time that said employees could be spending generating revenue for our nation's economy. I propose that we do away with pregnancy all together and instead artificially fertilize eggs and "grow" fetuses until they reach maturity, at which point they join the outside world. This would have the dual benefit of eliminating maternity leave and creating more jobs for the people who would work for the privately-owned labs where this would take place.

Moreover, I believe that we can't really rely too heavily on the natural course of events to create the right number of people in the correct amounts, so I propose that we dictate a standard system of "education", which begins at "birth", where we teach children the skills and behavior that are appropriate to their pre-destined class. Finally, we must take special care that we teach the children to be happy where they are, making sure that we don't produce ones with unstable traits, which is so delicately called "ambition" today.

Only then will we reach a social utopia, where not only everyone is happy with their lives, but history is also predictable and controllable due to the inherent traits of the people and their associated behaviors.


Cute. :) (none / 0) (#40)
by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 10:15:51 PM PST
Good job with the literary allusions, BTW. Nice work. :))


--
Peace and much love...




 
What horrid ideas you advocate (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by Adam Rightmann on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:05:47 AM PST
Please, children are meant to be conceived within the woman's body, and carried to full term within her womb. Stepping beyond that is attempting to play God, and that act of Hubris is surely punishable by Damnation. And tchatez, I don't think mimicing the Immaculate Conception is a cute literary allusion.


A. Rightmann

Good job spelling my name wrong. (none / 0) (#54)
by tkatchev on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:31:50 AM PST
I agree with you completely. However, you've obviously never read Huxley.


--
Peace and much love...




My apologies (3.00 / 1) (#57)
by Adam Rightmann on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:42:46 AM PST
t kat chev, I will try to remember that.

Was that allusion to Huxley, the one who advocated mescaline addiction and wrote dystopic bottom-dog novels? He's right up there with Burroughs, Orwell and Kerouac, as far as dangerous writings.


A. Rightmann

I don't know. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by tkatchev on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 08:56:28 AM PST
I don't think he's dangerous, at least not if you aren't an idiot and you have a solid Christian background. Think of it as satire about what a throughly rational and anti-Christian society would be like. That should scare people into being more tolerant of Christianity.


--
Peace and much love...




Good point (none / 0) (#64)
by Adam Rightmann on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 09:08:02 AM PST
One needs only go to anti-God websites like /. and kuro5hin to see what kidn of society they would prefer. I will look into this Huxley.


A. Rightmann

/. is the Devil? (none / 0) (#103)
by Loki on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 06:11:44 AM PST
By /. I assume you mean slashdot.org, and I'm aching to know why you think it's an 'Anti-God' website?


 
You may not be aware... (none / 0) (#65)
by Duke Machesne on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 09:24:59 AM PST
Jesus Christ was a powerful teacher of the ancient Jewish tradition of using psychedelic mushrooms in the course of personal liberation. Indeed, St. John the Divine recorded the lovely and terrible "dystopic bottom-dog" visions that become available when the doors of perception built into our minds are opened to religious experience using the remarkable chemical keys that God provided.


__________________________________________________
once you've remembered, you'll never forget

Oh yes, one more bottom-dog author (none / 0) (#68)
by Adam Rightmann on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 10:19:17 AM PST
Phillip K. Dick said what you said better in The Transmigration of Timothy Archer, and if there's a better example of the destruction of the human mind by the use of psychodelic chemicals the Mr. Dick, please show me.


A. Rightmann

 
An INTP's Opinion (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 08:46:01 PM PST
I find it quite difficult to believe that you are an INFP as your comments (degrading someone different from yourself) are quite contrary to the benevolent saints you portray INFPs to be. Did Mother Theresa extol her virtues? No, because what virtue is self-promotion? It seems to me (a removed bystander) that you are rather self-righteous. Why are you trying to remove the splinter in your neighbor's eye whilst you have a plank in your own? (a quote from probably the most famous INFP of all time). This whole hiearchy is anti-social and mean-spirited. I don't understand why someone who professes such selfless and honorable intentions would expend so much energy in degrading the intrinsic worth of others.

And as far as the feasibility of all this, it's a quite silly proposition. Society would slowly stagnate because of an atrophied technological sector. Could you imagine Nikola Tesla (an INTP responsible for modern power plants) relegated to an assembly line? For goodness sakes, there would not have been an assembly line for him to work on because before him there were no requisite power sources! This whole system would crumble without technological advancement, which NTs are indispensable for.

As far as this physical appearance business; that's just silly. Jennifer Anniston and John Travolta have both been typed as INTPs, and are considered quite attractive. Perhaps these physical descriptions stem from your own insecurities about your own appearance (somewhat of an Achilles Heel for INFPs, as they tend to have inferiorty complexes of body image or other nature).

My only point is that each personality has some contribution to make, and we're just limiting society's opportunities (and hence our own), when we deny others to serve their functions with dignity and grace.


Minor Correction (none / 0) (#61)
by Duke Machesne on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 08:45:54 AM PST
Nikola Tesla was actually an ENTP.


__________________________________________________
once you've remembered, you'll never forget

 
How right you are. (5.00 / 3) (#41)
by elenchos on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 11:50:24 PM PST
I felt pretty smug about all of this as I read it, because I've called an INFP by this scale for years, IIRC. It all sounded wonderful to me. But then I realized I hadn't taken the test recently. So I did, and was forced to admit the awful truth: I've become an INTP.

I knew it all along, of course, but wanted to pretend otherwise. But now it feels good to quit pretending. And I can report that it's all true: there is nothing more wretched than the degradation of being so in thrall to the little tin god of rationality. To be a slave to the instinct, the innate drive to mechanically act out some kind of inhuman algorithm. I disgust myself.

Remember that I was once in a purer and better state. I know what it is like to stand at the pinnacle of my humanity. And I also know the bitter taste of a fall. The sickening slide into decadent ruin. Now I don't feel things as a man, but simply react to data, as a machine. Why go on like this, anyway? Merely because I'm programmed to. Nothing means anything to we brittle shells that once were human minds.

I almost question the compassion behind allowing such wretches as us to go on at all. You could eradicate us all and we wouldn't even feel it. We would just record the fact of our stepping into oblivion like an insect would. Consciousness is long gone anyway.

Not that it really matters. Everyone dies. Even the exalted superconsciousness of the INFP will die and become nothing. So what does it all amount to then? Nothing. We will each end and be heard no more, no matter how low or high we were in this brief life. Life is a momentary accident, but utter nothingness is the norm of the cosmos. Pure cold dark empty meaningless void. That is what it is all about, and you should realize that right now. Our lives amount to zero in the cosmic scale. Do you know what a speck of dust our whole galaxy is compared to the visible ocean of emptyness strewn with few threads of galaxies punctuating that vast nothing? We are only a tiny fraction of that speck. You are but a bug, a smudge on the surface of the Earth, which is hardly noticable in the solar system as more than a fleck of dust. Think about how little it matters to be the least significant part of an insignificant speck in a meaningless, infintesimile dot. So why bother?

Don't! It isn't worth it. It all amonts to nothing, and don't ever forget that.


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


 
INTJ and proud of it. (none / 0) (#44)
by ausduck on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 02:51:39 AM PST
Dregs of society we may be, but we wouldn't be able to post messages on this site if it weren't for the work of programmers, engineers, etc. Society needs us thinkers much, much more than we need people who make irrational decisions and make deep and meaningful comments on artworks. Ordering the social heirarchy according to the lines that the author has done is to ignore the fact that we are in the Information Age/Technological Revolution/etc.


That is very tunnel visioned of you (5.00 / 2) (#49)
by bc on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 06:34:48 AM PST
Sure Information Technology and all that is important, but when it comes to what we do with it it isn't the INTPs and INTJs that decide.

Technology is just a tool, a collection of simple and predictable organised matter and the techniques used to get matter into that state. This resevoir of knowledge is important to the human race, certainly, but it all just exists to support the rest of us.

For example, agriculture is much more important than IT, but this doesn't mean we should venerate farmers, important though their work is, I'm sure. We don't get on our knees and worship the Son's of the sod. They are essential, but they aren't cutting edge anymore. Similarly, high technology is attaining a similar status. Progress is guranteed, throw enough INT*'s at the problem, and it will inevitably be solved, just like the farmer spreading seed on fertile ground. A miracle, yes, and to be cherished. Nothing new though. I could watch a seed sprout into a shaft of wheat lots of times, and perhaps I could watch the labour of these techies with a bewildered and thankful fascination, too. Like my old chemistry teacher plugging some Lithium or something in a bowl of water and seeing it fizz around, these people are quite remarkable to watch at work. Technology is like farming, it is important and wondrous but not new. The fascination the common people have is not for scientists and IT technicians, but for poets, artists, musicians and novelists. It seems to me that technology is becoming less and less important, and that the Arts and Entertainment industries are stalking into first place as the most important. We often hear about service based economies, and how manufacturing has given way to service based industries, as manufacturing is simple and understood, easily replicated, and done cheaply in third world countries Though, like agriculture, it is still *important*, it just doesn't need a great number of people or dominate the economy anymore. Manufacturing is going the way of agriculture.

And where Manufacturing goes the service industries like IT and research are following, having already surrendered the crown. Have you ever played civilisation? I did once, they had a thing where you could select what proportion of a city were workers, scientists, entertainers. As society advanced, the importance of the latter would increase. To progress, you'd need the scientists, but once advanced enough it becomes routinised, things like the Scientific method (a routine way of researching, all chance removed) are born, and the entertainers eventually come to the fore. Though this is just a game, I believe that our society is turning a corner just now, and that scientific research can be safely disregarded as in the top tier of professions, for it is simple and predictable. Surely the ethical goal of society is to free everyone from the demands of work? We can move on to a system where the more intangible Artistic types have top rank. Entertainment is the future, I firmly believe that.

What do people want out of life? In my opinion, most seek love, all the shades of love from Romantic to familial to the love of a good friend. The dominance of the *NT*'s in the past has meant that society has neglected love as important, we have seen many 'rational' wars and suchlike thanks to this attitude of praising the impersonal and raising it up. Our modern society is very alienating, too, everyone is forced by the order to become a Pygmalion in their own lifetime, unable to connect with others as they would like to. It is of the utmost importance that we resurrect humane values and allow people to feel for each other without fear, to open themselves up and grasp the nettle of life, of love. Simple tribal societies are among the happiest in the world, and it is time we brought this back by overturning the rampant but inhuman rationalism that stalks us, and forces us to accept fearful compromise.

Good on all the techies for working to create some nice technologies for the rest of us, but still the more feeling, artistic temperaments are the most important, for they define our very humanity. If I had to choose between the invention of the microchip and the sonnets of Shakespeare, I'd choose the latter, for I truly think they have had a far more important and humanising effect on us than any number of transistors.

The INTP/INTJ types depend on the storytellers, the idealists, the philosophers, the artisans, to inspire them. I bet many scientists and technical types were inspired by Science Fiction novels, poetry, and suchlike. And their excesses are curbed by us, too, for example the Nuclear (fucking) bomb was developed by INTPs and INTJs, though it took the sound administration and humanity of NF's and SF's to ensure that it was never used after WWII. And, of course, it would never have been developed in the first place without our outrageous imagination, set into print and sold, inspiring the techies who did the boring but necessary task of making the bomb a reality.

So it always is; we have the ideas and the visions, we dare to dream the impossible, you intj types make it a reality in dank laboratories, and then we thank you and decide what to do with your useful contribution. It is like a pyramid, with the thinkers at the bottom cranking out useful little things to order, and the feelers above instructing and guiding them, inspiring them. I think it is quite wonderful.

When Eve took the apple and ate it on the advice of the serpent, it was like the very first INTP inventing some simple tool, like a bow, or an axe, or fire, even. Her act removed us from a part of ourselves, and the resulting technological deluge that has engulfed us in only 4000 years has damaged us all. It is time to remake everything in a more personal mould, to ensure that technology is the servant of Mankind, not the other way around as many here would have it. This is why the pre-eminence of feelers and particularly INFPs is very important, we are the only ones with the ability to see what must be done, to rekindle the spirit that lies in all out hearts.

Noneheless, on behalf of all feelers everywhere, I thank you for your contribution to our society.


♥, bc.

INTP (5.00 / 1) (#50)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:02:13 AM PST
Next time you feel that your car is broken, ask an artist to fix it. It'll run so much better with all those buttons and bottle caps glued all over it.


 
Feelers vs. Thinkers (none / 0) (#52)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 07:07:11 AM PST
At least if all of the feelers suddenly disappeared, the thinkers wouldn't starve to death.