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 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Oct 13, 2001
 Comments: this is the Pagan Federation- a loose affiliation of Pagan peoples and groups that have banded together to - among other things- fight against mistreatment and misunderstanding- they have done great work in schools fighting against the christianising of learning

More diaries by psych wanderer
Is there hope?
what fun
I'm researching stalkers
So.. I'm back to see the kid
whats with all this


I don't mean to be a buttmunch about this, but... (none / 0) (#1)
by Frithiof on Sat Oct 13th, 2001 at 05:37:45 PM PST
could you please, instead of making a bunch of new diary entries (on the same day), post further comments within a single diary?

I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that it would be preferable for you to not fill up the Recent Diaries menu with your stuff and knock everyone else's contributions off.

Don't take this the wrong way, though; I'm sure you have lots of interesting things to discuss with us, it's just that a little consideration goes a long way in some things.


didnt mean to (none / 0) (#2)
by psych wanderer on Sat Oct 13th, 2001 at 07:30:43 PM PST
sorry- just got here- still figuring it out- tired- and all the usual crap excuses- won't do it again sor - honest guv - will figure it out eventually- sooner rather than later I hope for your sakes

psych wanderer
"The thing I miss the most is my mind"

heh... (none / 0) (#3)
by Frithiof on Sat Oct 13th, 2001 at 08:25:59 PM PST
I just arrived here, too... I figured I'd just try and be polite at first (limiting myself to one diary entry per day, for example), and then start doing, as time goes on, what some of the regular posters do.


er (none / 0) (#15)
by psych wanderer on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 11:09:18 AM PST
well I tried polite once - didn't really work out- anyways - I have figured out how to work this durned technology now so be at your ease - and do tell me what other posters do??- is it gossip?? I love gossip
psych wanderer
"The thing I miss the most is my mind"

Question (none / 0) (#4)
by Logical Analysis on Sat Oct 13th, 2001 at 08:47:01 PM PST
Why are you a pagan?

Because... (none / 0) (#5)
by tkatchev on Sat Oct 13th, 2001 at 10:16:38 PM PST
...he doesn't want to take responsibility for his own fate. Really, that's the reason for 99% of the anti-Christian sentiment out there.

Peace and much love...

Really? (none / 0) (#6)
by SpaceGhoti on Sun Oct 14th, 2001 at 04:10:04 AM PST
Your Certificate of Enlightenment sure is getting a lot of mileage. Here I thought that my non-Christian beliefs were due to actually thinking about what I believe and why, instead of blindly following the someone else's dogma as handed down through my forefathers. Now I understand that my belief that I was accepting responsibility for my own actions and fate is really the opposite.

Between you and Adam Rightmann, I'm getting a hell of an education about myself. I don't know how to thank you!

A troll's true colors.

Indeed. (none / 0) (#10)
by tkatchev on Sun Oct 14th, 2001 at 10:27:46 AM PST
Maybe you should let a 3-yr-old child "think critically" and "be open-minded", let him "evaluate his opinions" on the topic of eating lead and snorting crack cocaine. Why blindly follow your forefather's advice? Why not try everything in life? Eat some lead chips. Shoot up with ethanol. Have anal sex without a condom. Why, there are thousands of things you haven't evaluated because your forefathers have been holding you back with silly dogmatical excuses!

Peace and much love...

Critical thinking (none / 0) (#18)
by SpaceGhoti on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 01:49:29 AM PST
The best I can do for a three-year-old is to "train him up in the way he should go." As for my daughter, it is my intention to teach her to question things. Why shouldn't we eat lead chips? Because of documented evidence that it makes you sick. Why should we not snort cocaine? Because of example after example of how it ruins your life. Why should we not put our trust in Bible-thumpers? Because of example after example of how it kills critical thinking.

Once my daughter becomes an adult, my responsibility to train her up in the way she should go comes to an end. If she decides she wants to eat lead chips or snort crack cocaine because I didn't convince her otherwise, that's her responsibility. I can disagree and I can advise otherwise, but I can't control her life anymore than you can control someone who wants to explore largely undocumented territory.

Goodness, the perils of a free society abound, don't they?

A troll's true colors.

although this is an old example: (none / 0) (#19)
by THC 1138 on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 12:10:46 PM PST
"Why, there are thousands of things you haven't evaluated because your forefathers have been holding you back with silly dogmatical excuses!"
such as 'Don't question the planets and space, everyone knows that the Earth is the center of the Universe, and the sun and the planets revolve around it. And the brain, a useless organ. Everone knows the mind and soul are contained in the heart.'

How does it feel? Well it feels f**king blind. - b. k.

How can you be responsible for your own fate (none / 0) (#8)
by THC 1138 on Sun Oct 14th, 2001 at 10:18:39 AM PST
in a religion that teaches pre-destination, i.e. that even before you are born, your future has already been written, and God knows if you are going to heaven or hell.

How does it feel? Well it feels f**king blind. - b. k.

Are you retarded? (none / 0) (#9)
by tkatchev on Sun Oct 14th, 2001 at 10:24:06 AM PST
You are confused beyond belief. Christianity and predestination are completely opposite things. (Christianity being a religion that is almost wholly based on the concept of free will.)

This is disgusting -- you people who are complaining about the "christianizing" of education don't even know the very basic facts of Christianity. Sad that you don't know the first thing about the basis of 2000 years of European civilization.

Peace and much love...

Mabye he's a Protestant Heretic. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by elenchos on Sun Oct 14th, 2001 at 01:23:03 PM PST
Martin Luther and John Calvin taught that God had already judged humanity for the entirity of creation, and already knew who the 144,000 saved souls are. Thus, there is only divine providince and no free will at all.

The Anti-Christ in Rome reacted by making belief in Free Will a central tenet of the Satanic Roman Catholic faith.

The apostate Orthodox and other evil Gnostic sects simply equivocate on the whole thing, tossing out koans and changing the subject.

My solution is to re-build the Roman Collisium and fill the arena with Christians of all kinds armed with sharpend sticks. Let them fight it out, and the survivors can be fed to the lions. It would be the most popular show on TV for weeks.

I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill

Glad to see such eloquent use (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by THC 1138 on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 08:00:06 AM PST
of the English language to make a point. I think it was first pioneered at the Constitutional Convention:
Washington - "I think people should have the guaranteed right of freedom of Speech. This way people can say whatever they want about the government and not worry about being arrested."
Franklin - "Are you retarded?"

It was even used at the end of WW2:
Rooosevelt - "Let's split up Germany into many different parts."
Stalin & Churchill - "Are you retarded?"

As you can see, this has been a highly effective means of dialogue and argument throughout recent history.

How does it feel? Well it feels f**king blind. - b. k.

wrong again (none / 0) (#17)
by psych wanderer on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 11:53:28 AM PST
christianity has not been in Europe for 2000 years- I think - and I will check my dates if challenged to :) - the foreign religion of christianty was not fully accepted - in Britain at least- until the 6th century- and then the people as a whole paid lip service to it because they were forced to - they went about their business and carried on worshipping their local gods/godesses behind the backs of the mighty church.
psych wanderer
"The thing I miss the most is my mind"

uh uh!! wrong again- go to the back of the class (none / 0) (#16)
by psych wanderer on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 11:32:35 AM PST
I take full responsibilty for my own fate- that is what Paganism is all about and your comment merely shows again how little you know.
Pagans are neither 'fools, escapists, nor superstitious'
Etymologically Fate means - 'that which is spoken' - that is, by the gods - eventually corrupted over the years to signify 'what is preordained, destiny'.
Do you not think and are you not taught as a christian that you will go to heaven?- oh- only if you act in a certain way and believe certain things of course - but you get what i mean?
Anyway- is this not a way of leaving your fate to your god?- the Islam religion is much the same- Inshallah (sp?)means - by the will of Allah or something similar- again giving up your destiny/fate to your god.
Pagans on the other hand believe that the destiny/ fate of individuals is in their own hands- we shape our own destiny - we are born of the universe and we will return to the universe and return again-
By shaping our own fate we influence that of others and that of the world as a whole- so tell me - is that not wanting to take responsibility for my own fate???
psych wanderer
"The thing I miss the most is my mind"


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