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'The EU Report on the Echelon System' | Login/Create an Account | Top | 182 comments | Search Discussion
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. Slashdot is not responsible for what they say.
Echolon is our front line. (Score:0, Troll)
by Lover's Arrival, The (Lovers_Arrival_The@americanwicca.com) on Friday May 25, @11:47AM EST (#7)
(User #267435 Info)
I don't understand why people criticise Echelon all the time. Prima Facie, it may appear insidious and dangerous, but really it is just a branch of the modern military, and a legitimate form of defense.

In the modern world, defense through physical aggression really doesn't work. Armies and bombs are becoming an archaic thing of the past, as modern states attack each other in the infosphere.

Echelon is our defense. It has provided an incredible amount of information for the Anglo Saxon world, and was first set up by the Anglo Saxon nations to provide a defense against the socialism and communism gripping europe. It provided much defense against the nazi threat in WWII. I think perhaps that our European friends forget their history when they criticise Echeleon - if it were not for Echelon, the fascists and communists would have plunged Western Europe into a pit of darkness the like of which the world has never scene.

At the end of the day, Echelon is controlled by our democratic governments, and the information it reveals is used responsibly. We very rarely give information out to companies or the public, unlike the french.

Echelon is controlled democratically, but it is the undemocratic knife edge that defends and ensures the existance of our democratic Anglo Saxon realms. Those who would see it disbanded - like the Europeans with their PR campaign, when they do just the same thing unsuccessfully - are just seeking to plunge our nation into decline and guilt, where we should be strong, proud and altruistic. I hope to see echelon continue its good work, for all our people, in its defense of the Anglo Saxon worldview. UKUSA needs echelon.

--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
<<THEORY by TRoLLaXoR (Score:-1) | Echelon DDoS attack. by Xerithane (Score:3) >>
Moderation Totals:Flamebait=2, Troll=8, Insightful=7, Interesting=3, Informative=1, Overrated=3, Total=24.
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @11:52AM EST (#14)
Thank you for some common sense! I've always wondered why people pick the war against their own government. Our government likes us, they don't care if you're surfing for porn! The war isn't between the governments and its citizens, the war is between our country and others! The Echelon can be used to stop terrorism (it has worked to this end)! It is not to gather info on your personal habits, the NSA does not care about that. They want to stop people from blowing up our people! I say, go Echelon, go NSA!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:5, Insightful)
by number one duck (slashdot (at) reallydirtyporn (dot) com) on Friday May 25, @11:53AM EST (#15)
(User #319827 Info) http://www.reallydirtyporn.com
Yes, it would be a shame for Airstrip One to fall before the hoards of Eastasia. May we and our Eurasian allies stand tall in the face of this threat!


www.reallydirtyporn.com. Easier than bookmarking Google.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @11:53AM EST (#16)
But there is also this small suspicion that the Echelon has been used to give information to American companies and therefore had an edge over other companies from other countries. Then there is no longer defense but corporate espionage. And the goverment should not really be involved in such things.


[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:2, Insightful)
    by alen on Friday May 25, @12:06PM EST (#48)
    (User #225700 Info)
    Our economies are linked more than you know. Examples are Daimler Benz-Chrysler, GM owns Opel, Swiss Credit Suisse owns First Boston, Sony, a few drug companies, the auto companies from US Europe and Japan all owning each other's stock. Local economies are dying out and an integrated world economy is emerging. Corporate espionage supported by government will soon be a thing of the past. Otherwise giving info to one Fortune 500 company will hurt another.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Flamebait)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @11:53AM EST (#20)
Anglo Saxon nations to provide a defense against the socialism and communism gripping europe.

Indeed.

Furthermore, I hope that in the future it will also be employed in the detection, interception and suppression of dangerously deviant phenomena such as homosexuality.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Moderators: WAKE THE FUCKING UP!!!! (Score:0, Informative)
    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @12:25PM EST (#74)
    As the parent poster I would like to draw your attention to the following things.

    a) Lovers Arrival is a well known troll.
    b) He frequently speaks of his homosexual lover.
    )c) His post has every trademark of a troll. Bashing socialism and communism all the while advocating the means of such an oppressive society. Shame on you for not realizing this. You MORONS!

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
this post (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @11:54AM EST (#21)
richly deserves a goat post in reply!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @11:56AM EST (#25)
Exactly, this system is for the good of the people. And then there are certain slashdotters with unwarranted feelings of self-import who feel it necessary to "clog" the system with junk. Hey thanks guys, thats a great idea. Let's try and jam one of our primary sources of information of terrorist threats with fakes, that will get them back for trying to protect us! Sometimes, I wish all those people who threaten to leave the US just would, leave it in the hands of those who care about this country.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Wow (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @12:01PM EST (#33)
Slashdot's readers certainly have changed their tune lately: from MS tolerance to supporting Echelon, I can't think of what could be next?? :)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @12:02PM EST (#35)
I bow in your presence, oh great troll. May your life be littered with the bodies of dead slashbots.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
goat? (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @12:03PM EST (#41)
goat!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @12:03PM EST (#42)
margot j00 are the kutest! j00 are a cutey little cutey pie and ooh oh god. if only i were unattached then j00 and i could hook up with a 55 gallon drum of KY jelly and some midgets and go at it liked greased weasels. no yak this time, no motor oil, and leave the rubber hose at home. i will dump my fiance and come to j00. run to the store and get some peanut butter. well go on now! pick it up! get it, get it, you wild bitch!!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:3, Interesting)
by cygnus on Friday May 25, @12:08PM EST (#51)
(User #17101 Info)
"Echelon is controlled democratically, but it is the undemocratic knife edge that defends and ensures the existance of our democratic Anglo Saxon realms. "

you have a point, but your usage of the term "anglo saxon" is pretty offensive. this country is made up of a variety of ethinc lineages, and anglo saxon by no means has even a plurality, let alone a majority.

also, echelon doesn't have anything to do with WWII, the Nazis, or preventing the plunging of Europe into a pit of darkness. the UKUSA alliance dates back to 1947; echelon to 1971. check it out:

The Echelon FAQ from Echelonwatch

if gates is so rich, why can't he afford a bigger couch?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
ach mien leiben! (Score:3, Insightful)
by CRAssEsT (jchagan80@hotmail.com) on Friday May 25, @12:11PM EST (#56)
(User #307789 Info) http://www.angelfire.com/extreme2/sandwhichking
before you say that der Echelon fought against fascism, you should see the deffinition, and realize that at best it just switched it with a more 20th centurary fascist: fas·cism (fshzm) n. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
-- % ar m God ar: God does not exist
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:0, Offtopic)
by airgee on Friday May 25, @12:24PM EST (#73)
(User #118217 Info)

How this obvious troll managed to get a +5 ???
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @12:26PM EST (#75)
Yes, but how does your boyfriend feel about it?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:1)
by Amadawn on Friday May 25, @12:30PM EST (#83)
(User #43796 Info)
The main problem we have in the UE with Echelon is that the UK is involved with it. It is already quite bad for the US to spy in its (supossedly) allies, but the UK is not just an ally of the rest of UE nations, it is a MEMBER of the UE!

What would you think if Texas was spying on the rest of the states of the USA?

Also, you imply that because Echelon is controled by the democratic government of the USA it will only used for the good cause and that you'll never give info to any corporation, etc. Riiiiigggght! Who buys that? I don't and it seems that the UE parliament doesn't either.

Cheers,

Angel

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Secret Agent Bubba... (Score:1)
    by Karl_Hungus on Friday May 25, @01:07PM EST (#106)
    (User #180893 Info)
    What would you think if Texas was spying on the rest of the states of the USA?

    I think I'd tell Texas to come up with their own damn barbeque sauce instead of stealing our recipes, thank you very much.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Re:Secret Agent Bubba... (Score:-1, Offtopic)
      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26, @05:02AM EST (#166)
      >>What would you think if Texas was spying on the rest of the states of the USA?

      >I think I'd tell Texas to come up with their own damn barbeque sauce instead of stealing our recipes, thank you very much.

      Seriously, I think you should be concerned. A good example of inter-state espionage would be the case of Albuquerque, New Mexico trying to steal the Springfield Isotopes! Oh, the evil implications!!!
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @01:21PM EST (#115)
    I have no idea what you mean by 'UE' but surely you mean 'EU'? Maybe you’re referring to its French name, l'Union Européenne?

    The UK is part of the EU for economic reasons, they needed free exchange of goods and had to accept 'all the other stuff' as a form of blackmail. That's why the UK pours a few billion in the EU every year only to see less than half that money return, it would of been more money but 'maggie' managed to get a 'rebate'. However, it gives them access to trade, it's basically blackmail, but it's worth it for economic reasons.

    Europe is still a very emotive issue in the UK, just take a look at the latest headlines on the BBC site. I wouldn't call the UK a European country as such, it's fairly clear where is allegiances truly lie.

    Culturally and politically the UK has far more in common with the USA than the EU (which is largely a socialistic French controlled organisation).

    You have to remember the NSA can't just point some dish at Fort Meade at a country its interested in, it needs listening posts around the world, the European spying is only possible through the Menwith Hill complex on the Yorkshire Dales (England). There are also posts in Gibraltar (British Territory) a few islands in the Indian Ocean, there was a post in Hong Kong too, Falklands etc and a bunch of other territories situated in other 'convenient' places around the world, this is why the Brits are quite useful to the NSA.

    The US Nuclear Early Warning system also runs from another base in Yorkshire called 'Fylingdales', so if Russia ever fired a missile at the US, it would have been detected here, there was even US nuclear weapons ready to fire on Russia from English soil for many years.

    Bush's new National Missile Defence will rely on a big upgrade of the Fylingdales base to effectively detect and intercept missiles from Russia, Middle East, India, and Pakistan etc. So from a military and defence point of view, I think it’s clear where the UK stands, the EU isn't so merry little club which you make out.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
Echelon crosses the line. (Score:2, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @12:38PM EST (#90)
Echelon is wrong for these reasons:
1) We are told we have a set of freedoms and that we are so much more democratic than the non-'Anglo Saxons' as you put it, and that these freedoms are worth defending. I do not see how spying on the citizens of the world, while claiming that we have the right to privacy advances the cause of freedom. It happens to advance the cause of the states involved but not the nations involved. There is a distinction between believe in freedom and one's flag.
2) Simply because it is run by democracies, does not make it democraticly controlled. Ollie? Any thoughts? Have you been asked by your local political representative whether or not you actually support such a system? No, we were not told of it until this Englishman raised the alarm. Only when the cat was out of the bag did it become a political issue. It is an organization that does not face normal checks and balances like most government operations. Sure, a director has to have a somewhat uncomfortable yearly meeting with some other director but for an operation of this nature, public scrutiny dearly needed.
3) Our present government may be good overall, but future goverments may not. Will I be held accountable for this post in 30 years? (Here I am opposing my government's policy.) I honestly don't know.
Hitler was elected. Giving future governments insights into my private thoughts via my private faxes, emails, etc. is not such a wonderful idea. Even today one cannot predict the next fixations of our governments: today drugs and cracking, yesterday booze, tomorrow protesting the WTO? Pr0n? All these wars have casualties in ruined lives, for better or worse.

Civil Rights and specifically Privacy is an ideal that people hold to for a reason. This program makes it clear to citizens that our Privacy is not as important to our governments as we were told. One has to then ask: what's next on their list?


[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echelon is our front line. (Score:2, Informative)
by Caraig (root@localhost) on Friday May 25, @12:39PM EST (#91)
(User #186934 Info)

I'm sorry, Lover's Arrival, but I must disagree.

Echelon is an infomration-gathering system. The theory behind its operation is that it picks up key words in open communications. It cannot pick out encrypted words. By "encrypted" in this sense, I mean messages within messages, such as one phrase meaning something completely different than what it sounds. (For example: "Climb Mount Niitaki," I think, was the phrase used to initiate the Imperial Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. This phrase would ot have been picked up, if Echelon was operating during WWII, which it was not, since there are no "key" words for Echelon to latch onto, such as "bomb," "attack," "aircraft carrier," and the like.) Some people have claimed that Echelon has been expanded to enable it to monitor Internet traffic.

Furthermore, military traffic of a sensitive nature is sent encrypted over non-civilian channels. Echelon's entire purpose is the monitoring of civilian channels. This is of importance when combatting an insurrection or rebellion, when the participants will most likely need to rely on the existing civilian information infrastructure. However, when facing a full-fledged military force (or an insurrection force equipped by a foreign power with military-grade equipment) Echelon will fail because the targets of surveillance will no longer be using civilian channels.

This lends credence to the assertations of a report to the European Parliament in 1988 that Echelon "ECHELON is designed for primarily non-military targets: governments, organisations and businesses in virtually every country." (Reference) (In fact, go here to learn about the ACLU's take on Echelon.)

Echelon is intended for domestic monitoring. The only possible use such a thing could have is to monitor a nation's citizens for insurrection and seditious activities. The legal and moral grounds for a government to monitor it's citizens and persecute them for these crimes depends upon whom you ask.

Just as a point of fact:

It provided much defense against the nazi threat in WWII.

It did not. Echelon's groundwork was laid in 1947 as part of the UKUSA agreement, in which the United States and the United Kingdom (and by extension the British Commonwealth) would coordinate intelligence activities and share information. The actuall Echelon system itself was allegedly set up in 1971.

---
Chief Technician, Helpdesk at the End of the World
"I am an IT-Goth and an Adept of Tantric VAX."

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:3, Funny)
by Hard_Code on Friday May 25, @12:49PM EST (#98)
(User #49548 Info)
Wtf is wrong with you boy? Is that a troll, or are you high?

"We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia."


It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're unamerican?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Echelon is not defense (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @01:04PM EST (#103)
It's a proactive tool to help USA keep its economic competitiveness, which otherwise would be lost due to the fact that capitalism does not work. You can keep it artificially alive, but in the end there are better alternatives.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @01:15PM EST (#111)
Who the fuck marked this as flamebait? He makes one hell of a point!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:1)
by PatientZero on Friday May 25, @01:25PM EST (#119)
(User #25929 Info)
. . . but really it is just a branch of the modern military, and a legitimate form of defense. In the modern world, defense through physical aggression really doesn't work.

Would that be the same military that "defended" South Vietnam by invasion and genocide? The same military that bombed North Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia to ruins, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, if not millions? Perhaps the same military that "defended" Central and South America by overthrowing many a popularly-elected government because they showed signs of "communism" such as policies favoring land reform, education, labor rights, and health care? (See for instance Guatemala, El Salvador, Argentina, Nicaragua, et al)

America's indoctrination and propoganda system is a mighty fine piece of work, but even I am surprised that people still believe we need to defend ourselves from communism by using murder, torture, state terror, repression, and effective slavery of entire nations.

And that might be fine if it were really about communism rather than money. I understand that we like our high living standards, but is it worth terrorizing other people to "protect our sources of raw materials and ensure markets for our exports"? Would you be willing to fly to South America and do some of the killing yourself?

And Bush wants to increase the already insane level of military spending. I guess maintaining a puppet dictatorship with military force -- uh, I mean defense -- is quite expensive. Damn those peasants, always demanding to be fed and clothed and occasionally educated.

At the end of the day, Echelon is controlled by our democratic governments, and the information it reveals is used responsibly. We very rarely give information out to companies or the public, unlike the french.

And who controls our democratic governments? You aren't under the belief that we as citizens of the various democracies control our governments, are you? When information gathered through Echelon was given to Boeing, causing Airbus to lose a contract to them, that was just another case of staving off fascism? Unlike the French indeed.

. . . where we should be strong, proud and altruistic.

You forgot massacre indigenous populations, force our moral values upon others, destabilize peace to ensure unfetered access to oil, markets, and cheap labor, and use the CIA to overthrow popular governments. Oh yes, and how could I forget rape, pillage, and burn!

Peace PatientZero

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1)
    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26, @05:16AM EST (#167)
    >killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, if not millions?

    Yes, but sooner or later they'll arm themselves against us. Wouldn't they then be considered soldiers?

    >America's indoctrination and propoganda system is a mighty fine piece of work,

    No need. We already have a shitty educational system. Naturally, the serious lack of useable skills amongst our populous will cause them to "contribute" to society by being "patriotic" and believe everything our politicians tell them, given they remember to smile at the camera.

    >but even I am surprised that people still believe we need to defend ourselves from communism by using murder, torture, state terror, repression, and effective slavery of entire nations.

    Kill them before they kill us.

    >I understand that we like our high living standards, but is it worth terrorizing other people to "protect our sources of raw materials and ensure markets for our exports"? Would you be willing to fly to South America and do some of the killing yourself?

    Funny thing is every time people go to war, the defending country ends up having to further cut its funds for education. Without that education, people will more likely listen to such "tin-pot dictators". Therefore, hostilities get amplified.

    >And who controls our democratic governments? You aren't under the belief that we as citizens of the various democracies control our governments, are you?

    ROFL! Name one country on this planet that's actually a democracy. No, representatives are proxy votes and not direct.

    >You forgot massacre indigenous populations, force our moral values upon others, destabilize peace to ensure unfetered access to oil, markets, and cheap labor, and use the CIA to overthrow popular governments. Oh yes, and how could I forget rape, pillage, and burn!

    How else am I suppose to prove I'm manly?
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @01:49PM EST (#125)
This troll is so beautiful it brought tears to my eyes. Bravo.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:2, Insightful)
by corvi42 on Friday May 25, @01:57PM EST (#127)
(User #235814 Info) http://www.silencegreys.com/memetic_labs/
I wonder - did you even read the report?

You say:
[...] but really it is just a branch of the modern military, and a legitimate form of defense.

The report says: ( section 13.2 )
What is important is that its purpose is to intercept private and commercial communications, and not military communications.

You say:
At the end of the day, Echelon is controlled by our democratic governments, and the information it reveals is used responsibly.

The report says: ( also section 13.2 )
As the protection of EU citizens depends on the legal situations in the individual Member States, which vary widely, and since in some cases parliamentary control bodies do not even exist, the degree of protection can hardly be said to be adequate.

I also wonder whether you have a brain in your head.

You say:
It provided much defense against the nazi threat in WWII.

Yes, and if the Romans hadn't beat off the Carthaginians, we'd all be speaking Carthaginian-derived languages today. And if the Anglo-Saxons, of which you are so proud ( and yes I am one too ), hadn't killed the Britons and stolen their lands, we'd all be speaking some variation of Welsh. And if the Anglo-Saxons hadn't had their butts kicked by William the Conqueror, we'd all be speaking something much more like Dutch. And if the Austrians hadn't beaten off the Turks, we'd all be speaking Turkish.

My point is: beating down an invader or an oppressor in the past hardly gives you moral justification for being an invader and an oppressor today. Just because Echelon-like systems were used to defeat the Nazis and provide valuable information on the Soviets doesn't mean that its OK to be using it to spy on private people and businesses today.

You say:
[...] our democratic Anglo Saxon realms [...] we should be strong, proud and altruistic [...] in its defense of the Anglo Saxon worldview [...]

Whoa, hold on there bucko!
Take off the white hood and put down the burning cross. Maybe its just me, but you sure do make yourself sound awfully racist talking like this.

Sure, the Echelon nations were settled/conquered/plundered largely by people of the British Iles, and they compose the dominant populations. But don't forget that within the UK, USA, Australia, NZ, Canada, there are many many non Anglo-Saxon people who are perfectly good citizens and share the same "values" you speak of. If you try to exclude them from being worthy of the same rights as others, you automatically invalidate your claims to any kind of democratic righteousnous. Also there are many Anglo-Saxons among us ( myself included ) who feel that this kind of espionage and surveillance of people and businesses, whatever their nationality is wrong and immoral. Evidently this "strong, proud and altruistic" nature you seem so misty-eyed about is not a genetic trait of Anglo-Saxon stock.

You seem very certain that the activities of the Intelligence agencies are scrutinized very thoroughly by the democratic bodies governing those nations. I think you need something of an education in the realities of the intelligence world. The truth is that most intelligence agencies operate with very little accountability to the public or to democratically elected officials. They operate this way by design as well as by convention.

As for the case of the UK, they are a member in some respects of the European Union and European community, and are moving towards more integration with Europe - and not with the "Anglo Saxon realms". As members of the European Union they would be in violation of treaties and human rights conventions to conduct or allow surveillance of European citizens. All this is outline in the report under discussion here - if you had bothered to read it.

In conclusion I've got to say that anyone who values democracy as you seem to should not subscribe to the hypocrisy

Read the rest of this comment...

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:1)
by thelexx on Friday May 25, @02:00PM EST (#128)
(User #237096 Info)
OH MY GOD! WHERE OH WHERE ARE IS MY MOD ABILITY WHEN I NEED IT! This is -1 Flamebait sitting pretty at +5 Insightful!!!

OK, point by point since I have nothing but time at the moment.

I don't understand why people criticise Echelon all the time. Prima Facie , it may appear insidious and dangerous, but really it is just a branch of the modern military, and a legitimate form of defense.

Yeah, and while a rattlesnake may appear dangerous, it is in fact simply a branch of the lizard family and not to be concerned about.

In the modern world, defense through physical aggression really doesn't work. Armies and bombs are becoming an archaic thing of the past, as modern states attack each other in the infosphere.

Thank god you aren't controlling our military budget. Even today one has to occupy enemy land to own it. NO nation is so wired that it can be 'run remotely'. Not unless you have big fat missiles pointed at them, which brings you back in to the world of physical force.

Echelon is our defense. It has provided an incredible amount of information for the Anglo Saxon world, and was first set up by the Anglo Saxon nations to provide a defense against the socialism and communism gripping europe. It provided much defense against the nazi threat in WWII. I think perhaps that our European friends forget their history when they criticise Echeleon - if it were not for Echelon, the fascists and communists would have plunged Western Europe into a pit of darkness the like of which the world has never scene.

"449 In this year Mauricius and Valentinian obtained the Kingdom and reigned seven years. In their days Hengest and Horsa, invited by Vortigern, King of the Britons, came to Britain at a place called Ebbsfleet at first to help the Britons, but later they fought against them. The king ordered them to fight against the Picts, and so they did and had victory wherever they came. They then sent to Angeln; ordered them to send them more aid and to be told of the worthlessness of the Britons and of the excellence of the land. They sent them more aid. These men came from three nations of Germany: from the Old Saxons, from the Angles, from the Jutes."

Ignorant racist.

At the end of the day, Echelon is controlled by our democratic governments, and the information it reveals is used responsibly. We very rarely give information out to companies or the public, unlike the french.

Just how the fsck do you know for certain what our gov't does and does not do? This I would like to know.

Echelon is controlled democratically, but it is the undemocratic knife edge that defends and ensures the existance of our democratic Anglo Saxon realms. Those who would see it disbanded - like the Europeans with their PR campaign, when they do just the same thing unsuccessfully - are just seeking to plunge our nation into decline and guilt, where we should be strong, proud and altruistic. I hope to see echelon continue its good work, for all our people, in its defense of the Anglo Saxon worldview. UKUSA needs echelon.

Yeah, altruistic. Great, good and decent America dispensing the fruits of our moral high-ground to the great unwashed of the world. Jesushfuckingchristsittingonaspinfuckchairspewingb lasphemies! Go ask the Panamanians how thankfull they are for what the Bush admin did to them. Or the Cambodians we ignored while they died by the millions. I think I need to go puke.

Grrrrr!

LEXX
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Echolon is our front line. (Score:1)
by jay42 on Friday May 25, @03:19PM EST (#135)
(User #413000 Info)
I don't understand why people criticise Echelon all the time. Prima Facie, it may appear insidious and dangerous, but really it is just a branch of the modern military, and a legitimate form of defense.

I think the point there is not that Echelon is used for military purposes, but that it can be used for non-military purposes. It is just as saying that a thing is good because is as good uses (read thing=gun or whatever controversial topic). It can be bad is you misuse it.

At the end of the day, Echelon is controlled by our democratic governments, and the information it reveals is used responsibly. We very rarely give information out to companies or the public, unlike the french.

I wouldn't be so sure about that: it is well known that Echelon was used to spy on French companies to help US companies to win businesses. So please be moderate on theese :-|

And yes, as long as such a system is used by democratic government, this should not be a problem. But you know, the NSA (or any agency) sometimes does things that the government does not approve (officially). And you can also doubt that a government would no be tempted by using such systems to help its citizens (even if is seems not moral for other countries).

To get back to the "good use - bad use" that I was mentionning, Echelon is as bad (as good) as the government that uses it.

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Slashdot needs a new poll! (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @03:47PM EST (#141)
Slashdot's Greatest Trolls:
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